What OEM battery do we have in our hybrids?

[Johnnybayday]

Hey guys I've asked this question on Facebook but I'm still not sure what to do.

I'm having the dead battery issue in my truck but I've replaced the battery and it still dies occasionally. I bought one from AutoZone and I think it's a standard flooded type.

Did our trucks come with an AGM?

Currently when I looked at forscan the settings for battery type is AGM and I think I need to change it to flooded. It could be a reason why I don't get as much of a charge on my battery because AGM requires a lower voltage than a flooded.

Thanks for your help on this.

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[Archivist Engineer]

Best explanation of why all these battery issues are occurring.

Edit: Basically, the trucks were designed to have an AGM battery, but Ford switched it to a flooded battery without changing the proper settings. The stock battery can barely properly operate the truck if it's operating to the specs and every time the truck is driven, the battery will slowly be damaged. Replacing it with a more capable flooded battery will allow it to be damaged more before it starts to effect the batteries performance but doesn't correct the underlying issue.

By my understanding, unless the setting are changed in Forscan, which will have to be redone everytime a software update is performed, or the proper AGM battery is swapped in, the truck will slowing destroy any stock battery installed.

 

[Johnnybayday]

Damn thanks for your info... I'm.goign to try to put my settings to flooded battery on the forscan and see how it goes... Time to look for a good deal on an AGM battery. Whack! How can they cheap out on the battery when the specs require one!? Of

 

[Mr Pibb]

Damn thanks for your info... I'm.goign to try to put my settings to flooded battery on the forscan and see how it goes... Time to look for a good deal on an AGM battery. Whack! How can they cheap out on the battery when the specs require one!? Of

If my memory is correct, there was a constraint on them. That and the idea floating around that said it'd require a reevaluation of the hybrid if they did use the right battery.

 

[BearyArizona]

Best explanation of why all these battery issues are occurring.

Edit: Basically, the trucks were designed to have an AGM battery, but Ford switched it to a flooded battery without changing the proper settings. The stock battery can barely properly operate the truck if it's operating to the specs and every time the truck is driven, the battery will slowly be damaged. Replacing it with a more capable flooded battery will allow it to be damaged more before it starts to effect the batteries performance but doesn't correct the underlying issue.

By my understanding, unless the setting are changed in Forscan, which will have to be redone everytime a software update is performed, or the proper AGM battery is swapped in, the truck will slowing destroy any stock battery installed.

Is there any way to find the "proper" AGM battery and swap it in to fix the issues?

 

[Darnon]

Is there any way to find the "proper" AGM battery and swap it in to fix the issues?

Ford doesn't make an AGM 99R which makes the whole "they were supposed to be AGM" argument suspect. It could be true in the case of the EcoBoost where they did eventually switch to using AGM. I wouldn't necessarily take the battery type in the AB settings as definitive proof on it; mine also had the tire sizes set at 235/65R17 from the factory.

 

[Archivist Engineer]

Is there any way to find the "proper" AGM battery and swap it in to fix the issues?

Here would be the specs to get an exact drop-in replacement.

Also, there's a whole thread here of the many available options that will also work.

 

[Archivist Engineer]

Ford doesn't make an AGM 99R which makes the whole "they were supposed to be AGM" argument suspect. It could be true in the case of the EcoBoost where they did eventually switch to using AGM. I wouldn't necessarily take the battery type in the AB settings as definitive proof on it; mine also had the tire sizes set at 235/65R17 from the factory.

I don't believe Ford makes any of their own batteries and from what I've seen, it isn't a 99R replacement, it's a 140R.

I'm not an expert, but from everything I've seen here, it's not just that the battery type is listed as an AGM in the BMS, all of the settings in the BMS are configured from the factory for a AGM battery, which results in a flooded battery being chronically undercharged.

 

[Archivist Engineer]

Damn thanks for your info... I'm.goign to try to put my settings to flooded battery on the forscan and see how it goes... Time to look for a good deal on an AGM battery. Whack! How can they cheap out on the battery when the specs require one!? Of

I think in addition to changing the type of battery, you'll also need to change the charge capacity to match a flooded battery. More info about which setting to change are in links in my other posts.

 

[JDMaverick]

Isn’t your truck still under warranty? Don’t buy a new one gave FoMoCo resolve the problem.

 

[Darnon]

I don't believe Ford makes any of their own batteries and from what I've seen, it isn't a 99R replacement, it's a 140R.

I'm not an expert, but from everything I've seen here, it's not just that the battery type is listed as an AGM in the BMS, all of the settings in the BMS are configured from the factory for a AGM battery, which results in a flooded battery being chronically undercharged.

AGM batteries charge at a higher voltage which, if anything, would result in an overcharged flooded battery. That said I didn't notice any change in the voltages when switching between the two in the BMS settings.

The manual calls it out as a 99R battery; 140R might fit but it's 15mm taller.

And there isn't a Motorcraft 140R battery so you'd be using aftermarket, and aftermarket (SLA or AGM) batteries seem to solve the issue anyways.

 

[Archivist Engineer]

AGM batteries charge at a higher voltage which, if anything, would result in an overcharged flooded battery. That said I didn't notice any change in the voltages when switching between the two in the BMS settings.

The manual calls it out as a 99R battery; 140R might fit but it's 15mm taller.

And there isn't a Motorcraft 140R battery so you'd be using aftermarket, and aftermarket (SLA or AGM) batteries seem to solve the issue anyways.

I've been going off of what people have been posting based on the actual measurements of their batteries. But being the different is about 1/2", I can see the confusion.

Switching the battery type doesn't seem to actually change the charge settings. It appears those would need to be adjusted manually to match a flooded battery.

I'm reaching the limits of my knowledge here, but my understanding is that's both over and undercharging the stock battery. The differences in the charging between two is that AGMs charge at a higher voltage, but have lower resistance and can regularly operate at lower charges before recharging without damaging the battery.

So the BMS is putting too high of voltage to the flooded battery, which has discharged lower than it was designed for. This damages the cells, which slowly increases the internal resistance of the battery. Resistance naturally increases as a battery is charged until reaches close to "capacity" which is the point the resistance is greater than the charge voltage. Over time, this increased resistance will build to the point that even the higher voltage isn't able to fully recharge the battery, at which point it start to become undercharged.

Meanwhile, the BMS will constantly be trying to recharge the battery to capacity with too high of voltage, which leads to further damage, which leads to increased resistance, which leads to lowered capacity, in a self-destructive cycle.

To anyone interested in digging into the technical details, I would recommend reading through threads I linked previously, as those are discussions between people that appear more knowledgeable on this than myself.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I think in addition to changing the type of battery, you'll also need to change the charge capacity to match a flooded battery. More info about which setting to change are in links in my other posts.

I think the 80% charge limit particularly since the battery type default is AGM BULK CHARGE limit (where as the FLOODED BULK CHARGE limit could be as high as 90%). This limit is to help prevent off gassing and overheating. Then after that voltage is reduced to charge battery to about 98% at absorption rate. Then trickle charge occurs to top battery off to 100%. An AGM is much more sensitive to overcharge damage than flooded. I firmly believe that any brand, type or size of battery will need a periodic visit by a maintainer. Reading warranty of an 99.9% pure leaf AGM manufactured for a 10-12 year designed life within a steel case to prevent internal pressure distortion. Expected life is reduced to two years if used in a computerized vehicle that has a residual draw and/or fuel injection. (Mostly manufacturer CYA). I use this as a good reason to put my maverick on my noco genius 5 about every 6-8 weeks and hope for 48 months life. I will most likely consider AGM at replacement time.

 

[svogt302]

Walmart H5 AGM

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