Update: Maverick eCVT hybrid transmissions have started production

[LDProductions]

Man I'm still not finding a clear answer about if IC engine braking is a thing on a Ford or Toyota style hybrid system or if my guesses are anywhere near reality.

When driving with the Toyota/Ford style hybrid system my experience has been that when you take your foot off the gas to say coast downhill, the regen braking kicks in, but It's not the same feeling as traditional engine braking where you can feel the power back off as it shifts down the gears. It's more like the feeling of really lightly dragging the brakes on a motorcycle or bicycle where yes, its scrubbing some speed, but it doesn't feel like you're being physically held back.

Hopefully that makes sense.

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[vap0rtranz]

Man I'm still not finding a clear answer about if IC engine braking is a thing on a Ford or Toyota style hybrid system or if my guesses are anywhere near reality. Can you give me the answer lol

You gotta work for those answers

Here's another snippet from the manual:

Engine Braking Active: The engine is on to provide increased powertrain braking. This can occur when you turn on the grade assist feature, when speed control is on or when driving with your foot off the accelerator pedal. Turning off grade assist or speed control may allow the vehicle to return to electric operation.

Hopefully that makes sense.

That's my experience as well, 1st with a Gen2 Escape Hybrid and then with Chevy Volt.

 

[oljackfrost]

Think it will have simulated shift points like my ex's Scion iQ's had? That was weird at first, but I loved the transmission. (and I prefer a manual).

I’m pretty sure there will be no simulated shift points, because the continuous part is the electric motor and it is constantly changing speeds... it would be inefficient to interrupt it.

 

[fbov]

Man I'm still not finding a clear answer about if IC engine braking is a thing on a Ford or Toyota style hybrid system

Here's what I've observed regarding recent Ford PSD hybrids and the corollary to conventional drivetrain "engine braking. "
- NORMAL mode off-throttle operation at speed gives a regen rate of ~20% of speed (at 40 mph, you'd get 8kW regen braking)
- off-throttle in ECO mode gives more like 40% of speed, so 16kW of regen braking at 40 mph.
- off-throttle with HILL ASSIST active will use up to 35 kW of regen to prevent speed rise downhill. When the HVB is full....
... the C-Max spins the ICE with no fuel, to pump air and create additional load. It was loud.
... the Escape Hybrid drops to a maximum of 20kW regen braking, suggesting a water-cooled resistive load. No idea of capacity.

“The hybrid vehicle should achieve longer distances between oil changes, and the brake pads are expected to last longer...
...the engine operating as an air pump once regeneration has filled the battery,... resistive power. Both modes exist in Ford hybrids.

The Escape Hybrid uses ICE hours to extend oil change mileage based on how much is EV. The criteria is the same 10K miles, except miles with the ICE off no longer count.

Brake pads are not as simple. Given regen braking is a front-axel load, the rear brakes are used to balance braking, front/rear. Front brakes don't get enough use and rust out. Hybrids don't like to sit.

 

[clavicus]

When the HVB is full....
... the C-Max spins the ICE with no fuel, to pump air and create additional load. It was loud.
... the Escape Hybrid drops to a maximum of 20kW regen braking, suggesting a water-cooled resistive load. No idea of capacity.

Air pump? What the heck I did not see that coming.

 

[Rkbrumbelow]

Here's what I've observed regarding recent Ford PSD hybrids and the corollary to conventional drivetrain "engine braking. "
- NORMAL mode off-throttle operation at speed gives a regen rate of ~20% of speed (at 40 mph, you'd get 8kW regen braking)
- off-throttle in ECO mode gives more like 40% of speed, so 16kW of regen braking at 40 mph.
- off-throttle with HILL ASSIST active will use up to 35 kW of regen to prevent speed rise downhill. When the HVB is full....
... the C-Max spins the ICE with no fuel, to pump air and create additional load. It was loud.
... the Escape Hybrid drops to a maximum of 20kW regen braking, suggesting a water-cooled resistive load. No idea of capacity.


The Escape Hybrid uses ICE hours to extend oil change mileage based on how much is EV. The criteria is the same 10K miles, except miles with the ICE off no longer count.

Brake pads are not as simple. Given regen braking is a front-axel load, the rear brakes are used to balance braking, front/rear. Front brakes don't get enough use and rust out. Hybrids don't like to sit.

And all I can do in the face of not having put my hands on a service manual or one of these trucks is state what the prevailing understanding is. I know you believe the air pump idea is gone in the current rendition of the hybrid system, and I suspect you are correct. But even if I am ivory pure (99 and 44/100ths) positive you are right that 56/100th is a mode when ch job t only does exist, but could be initiated, literally, in code or pushed out the same way. So given you are correct (and likely are) Ford could make you, not wrong but incomplete with a software change. That’s the only reason I listen it as a possibility and at the end.

 

[vap0rtranz]

- off-throttle in ECO mode gives more like 40% of speed, so 16kW of regen braking at 40 mph.

Thank you for confirming this. Your experience with the latest gens is very helpful here. It's what I'd expected for that drive mode based on what's typical for hybrids but every make/model has variations.

 

[fbov]

... is a mode when ch job t only does exist, but could be initiated, literally, in code or pushed out the same way

I'm afraid I completely lost you here.

 

[Rkbrumbelow]

I'm afraid I completely lost you here.

I have no idea why it came out like that unless a cat pounced.

What I meant was that I suspect that a firmware/software update could be issued by Ford to add the other mode of braking. Again, I am not saying it’s present, only that a software change is all that is likely needed to enable such a mode.

 

[Red Ryder]

What I meant was that I suspect that a firmware/software update could be issued by Ford to add the other mode of braking. Again, I am not saying it’s present, only that a software change is all that is likely needed to enable such a mode.

Oh dear, such a Boeing answer...

 

[Rkbrumbelow]

Oh dear, such a Boeing answer...

I was a systems engineer for a time, and Lockheed Martin is not far away.

Nah it’s just I have a condition where I say what I literally am thinking, and an analytic philosophy background, and a dozen other excuses in my bag of tricks

But I like the word play, very clever and sadly it is the kind of answer Boeing would give. Feature enhancements or some such to be delivered at a later date.

I am to understand the air pump mode sounds much like a freight train and is not desirable. I just don’t want to sound definitive until I really know (shutting up now)

 

[fbov]

Oh dear, such a Boeing answer...

Then it's a Boeing world. The Escape updates by WIFI while sitting in the driveway.

 

[FirstFord]

I am to understand the air pump mode sounds much like a freight train and is not desirable. I just don’t want to sound definitive until I really know (shutting up now)

You're imagining a Jake Brake noise?

Not likely to be anything like that from a 2.5l

I used to worry my Ducati with carbon fiber "mufflers" and open airbox made so much noise when I chopped throttle upon seeing a cop on the side of the road...
that was only 900cc

I think the level of obnoxiousness depends largely on the acoustic design of the intake and exhaust systems.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

But even if I am ivory pure (99 and 44/100ths) positive you are right...

LOL, I thought I made up the Ivory Factor! Great minds and all...

 

[Rkbrumbelow]

LOL, I thought I made up the Ivory Factor! Great minds and all...

That Idea is literally older than the automobile as it appeared in Ivory ads as early as 1879, 7 years before Carl Benz patented the automobile.

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