RTA Comparison: Base vs B&O Audio

[squirlz]

All measurements were taken between the front seat headrests using a jig for consistency and volume at 12.
Equipment:
Room EQ Wizard (REW) - Software used to capture RTA measurements
Onyx Producter 2.2 - Audio Interface
Dayton EMM-6 - Measurement Microphone
Smoothing at 1/3 Octave

Fade and Balance at 0, EQs at 0, Base in Blue, B&O in Green
Obvious better low and high end extension from the B&O, also a bit more flat. I am not sure why the hump around 250Hz on the base system. This might be an effort to add the appearance of bass. The B&O really shines here, the center channel really shows its worth above 900hz.

Fade to front, Balance at 0, EQs at 0, Base in Orange, B&O in Blue.
Not much different hear, just shows that the front is doing the heavy lifting.

Fade to rear, Balance at 0, EQs at 0, Base in Green, B&O in Orange.
Here we can see the curve of the sub woofer from 100Hz down to 30Hz before it starts to drop off. The rear B&Os have a higher High Pass crossover and do seem to hold in the upper frequencies. This makes me curious if there are different speakers in the B&O.

Front door near field, Balance at 0, EQs at 0, Base in Blue, B&O in Red.
This shows that they add a Low Pass crossover to the B&O door speaker, this will help with bringing the imaging up. It still seems high, but I think it shows that the center channel is not doing all of the lifting for vocals as a traditional mid range would and this helps keep some image width.

Base only, 75/25 Fade to front, EQ at 0 in Blue, Treble +7 in Orange, Mid +7 in Teal, Bass +7 in Purple.
For a more flat response, I would suggest adding a bit of treble and maybe some bass to suit your taste.

B&O only, 75/25 Fade to front, EQ at 0 in Green, Treble +7 in Orange, Mid +7 in Green, Bass +7 in Blue.
I think the B&O benefits from adding some to the Mid, this does bring out the vocals just a bit more, then add bass to suit your taste.

Overall the sound is a night and day difference. The B&O has higher imaging, there is more fidelity and vocals do shine a bit more. The upper end is well balanced on the B&O where the Base falls off. The B&O is very well balanced, no glaring overpowering tones or massive holes.

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[NCXLT]

You could take a magnet from bolt grabber and some printing paper and have what you have with the stock speakers. I’m amazed sound comes out of them.

 

[Master Blaster]

Both systems sure are notchy. I assume that is not artifacts of the measuring setup, and instead caused by the normal crappy sound that you get from being inside the speaker cabinet (the vehicle).

 

[squirlz]

There are many factors that play into how an audio system sounds such as speaker placement, orientation, and speaker design. The biggest issue in autos is that the environment is small and there are a lot of surfaces for sound to bounce off of.

The variations shown in the RTA are mostly caused by reflections and tuning. Since I have not measured the direct output of the amplifier, it is impossible to tell what tuning was done and for what reason. Manufactures have to make choices, and audio is usually not very high on the list so speaker placement is not usually optimal.

To remove all of the variances, you would need to adjust the speaker location, orientation, and tune it for that specific point in space. Since there are multiple passengers compromises need to be made for factory audio systems.

If you look into what goes into planning and executing a current competition level audio systems you will start to understand what is all involved and just how complex that is.

Now, having said that, RTA measurements do not tell the whole story. Small variances are hard to detect by the human ear. Replacing the speakers will most likely decrease the distortion but will not have a huge affect on the reflections.

RTA measurements do not explain the whole story, it is just a tool used in the process and can give us a quantitative measurement.

 

[colinl]

12 is pretty low volume. did you gather data at higher volume? I think you'd see more differences in the 80+ decibel range and the road noise in a truck going 60 mph is probably higher than your spl.

 

[Cherokee]

The Real Time Analyzer gives a very good graphical representation of the sound.
I think my way was just as good.

When I was moving into my Maverick and out of my 21 Bronco Sport Base model at the dealer I turned on both Fm radios, same channel. Set both to a volume level of 15
I sat in the BS then my 2024 Lariat.
Both EQ’s centered, both spaces set centered between the head rests.
The B&O was much better in all categories per my old man ears.

FWIW I can hear a mouse fart in the woods.

The BS basic system needed lots of EQ tuning, still base was never sharp and defined.
The B&O needed just a touch more midrange.
The base was clean crisp and accurate.
At level 20 volume the Bronco sports was maxed out.
The B&O was clean nearly to the max.

The B&O was a nice upgrade,
I may build a baffle or a base reflex box around the sub woofer, just for shits~n~giggles.

I don’t need more power or higher quality speakers. I’ll never turn it up above 15 or maybe 20 depending on the music.
I do classical to country but was raised on R&R.
The B&O shines with classical and handles Pink Floyd very well.

 

[squirlz]

12 is pretty low volume. did you gather data at higher volume? I think you'd see more differences in the 80+ decibel range and the road noise in a truck going 60 mph is probably higher than your spl.

For RTA, you want to make sure you are over ambient noise. The louder the measurement the more distortion and resonance you will pick up. Distortion, in a basic form, is unwanted sound. This includes reflections, noise from vibrating panels, or the speaker itself not producing the sound accurately. By increasing the volume, all you are doing is adding more distortion to the measurement.

Maybe I will do some testing around this. When listening at volume 20, the door panels will buzz and rattle.

 

[squirlz]

The Real Time Analyzer gives a very good graphical representation of the sound.
I think my way was just as good.

The B&O was much better in all categories per my old man ears.

The BS basic system needed lots of EQ tuning, still base was never sharp and defined.
The B&O needed just a touch more midrange.
The base was clean crisp and accurate.
At level 20 volume the Bronco sports was maxed out.
The B&O was clean nearly to the max.

The B&O was a nice upgrade,
I may build a baffle or a base reflex box around the sub woofer, just for shits~n~giggles.

The B&O shines with classical and handles Pink Floyd very well.

I agree, going from one to the other is a night and day difference. The clarity and definition of the B&O is far superior.

 

[colinl]

For RTA, you want to make sure you are over ambient noise. The louder the measurement the more distortion and resonance you will pick up. Distortion, in a basic form, is unwanted sound. This includes reflections, noise from vibrating panels, or the speaker itself not producing the sound accurately. By increasing the volume, all you are doing is adding more distortion to the measurement.

Maybe I will do some testing around this. When listening at volume 20, the door panels will buzz and rattle.

That may be literally true but that's not in the spirit of my question / assertion. I believe that you will find mechanical limits in the stock speakers at higher volumes, especially low frequency extension, that are relevant to the comparison. There is a longstanding tradition of critical listening reviews of home stereo systems in the 80-85db range and you're far quieter than that.

Further, I am saying that due to road noise in a moving vehicle, a listener may choose to have it louder than 12, to both overcome the noise (Car & Driver got 71dB in an ecoboost awd) and just to enjoy the music. You're well under 1 watt rms, I'm sure, with levels peaking around 65dB. I certainly wouldn't want to duplicate that road noise actually driving around, but playing the system at higher levels is also useful to see additional benefit from the B&O amp. I'm sure at your volume, the sync4 unit is not underpowered, but at some point a person assumes it will be distressed.

I have deadened the doors on my '22 and still have some resonance at certain frequencies, and it seems like a number of MY25 owners have complained of door resonance more than I recall being observed/mentioned with the previous years. MY22 Lariats have a cloth damper in the door panel from the factory, and I'm curious if MY25 Lariat (and other trims with B&O) still have it. I believe that cloth damper mainly is effective against wind and road noise, not speaker resonance, but it could have some value.

 

[Dignam]

I was squirlz's B&O test subject. One thing to note is we tested with the B&O set to 'Stereo' in the Sync4 sound settings. Not sure if setting to 'Surround' and testing would make much of a difference with the RTA readings, but just going by ear, Surround seems to push more to the center speaker, especially vocal ranges.

RE: the above dB for testing; practically speaking, the volume setting of 12 we used is plenty loud to overcome highway noise, at least with the B&O system. I know there is some volume compensation based on vehicle speed, however I don't think I've ever listened above 12 for any extended period of time. Cruising around town I'm usually between 8-10 volume.

I can pop off a door panel to see if there's any extra deadening on the '25 Lariat. I occasionally get a very slight buzz from one door panel, but only on certain songs with a certain bass frequency. We did notice some extra foam on the Lariat sort of behind the door hinges on the unibody that are not there on the XLT, however.

 

[colinl]

RE: the above dB for testing; practically speaking, the volume setting of 12 we used is plenty loud to overcome highway noise, at least with the B&O system. I know there is some volume compensation based on vehicle speed, however I don't think I've ever listened above 12 for any extended period of time. Cruising around town I'm usually between 8-10 volume.

ah. conversely, my second day owning my Maverick I discovered that the B&O will play to 30 without destroying anything provided that you have the bass level at neutral or 1-2 steps minus.

if I'm talking to a passenger in the car, I do set it as low as 6 or 8 which might as well be muted on the highway. but my normal listening level solo or with someone who enjoys music is more like 15-18.

 

[squirlz]

That may be literally true but that's not in the spirit of my question / assertion. I believe that you will find mechanical limits in the stock speakers at higher volumes, especially low frequency extension, that are relevant to the comparison. There is a longstanding tradition of critical listening reviews of home stereo systems in the 80-85db range and you're far quieter than that.

Further, I am saying that due to road noise in a moving vehicle, a listener may choose to have it louder than 12, to both overcome the noise (Car & Driver got 71dB in an ecoboost awd) and just to enjoy the music. You're well under 1 watt rms, I'm sure, with levels peaking around 65dB. I certainly wouldn't want to duplicate that road noise actually driving around, but playing the system at higher levels is also useful to see additional benefit from the B&O amp. I'm sure at your volume, the sync4 unit is not underpowered, but at some point a person assumes it will be distressed.

I have deadened the doors on my '22 and still have some resonance at certain frequencies, and it seems like a number of MY25 owners have complained of door resonance more than I recall being observed/mentioned with the previous years. MY22 Lariats have a cloth damper in the door panel from the factory, and I'm curious if MY25 Lariat (and other trims with B&O) still have it. I believe that cloth damper mainly is effective against wind and road noise, not speaker resonance, but it could have some value.

I agree that we will most likely see distortion at higher volumes on the base system. But by just measuring the output of the speaker you do not know the source of the distortion. I believe you would nuke the coil on a speaker before you could tell from an RTA that is is the physical speaker that is distorting and not everything around it buzzing and resonating.

I understand that you want to know when the overall system distorts. I am not going to risk blowing my speakers for science. I have to live with it until the weather warms up and I can get to work on my upgrades. To me knowing when the amplifier distorts is a far better measurement and far more telling.

When available, I would like to confirm if the speakers are different between the two trims. My guess is that they are, just with the addition of a better amplifier, center channel, and sub woofer make the difference.

I will be ordering a PAC T Harness and I will be able to measure the RTA of the ACM and measure when it starts to distort. Once I measure the output of the ACM, I can then measure the door speaker to see if it starts to distort before the signal.

 

[colinl]

I believe you would nuke the coil on a speaker before you could tell from an RTA that is is the physical speaker that is distorting and not everything around it buzzing and resonating.

yes, it can be hard to hear over excursion in a midrange soon enough to turn it down and keep from destroying it, like you can hear a subwoofer in distress.

I understand why you were gentle with someone else's b&o but like I mentioned before, Ford engineered it to play fairly loud without failing because of the amp power and crossover frequencies.

I wouldn't try playing the base system at volume 30, though.

 

[Toddman45]

I was squirlz's B&O test subject. One thing to note is we tested with the B&O set to 'Stereo' in the Sync4 sound settings. Not sure if setting to 'Surround' and testing would make much of a difference with the RTA readings, but just going by ear, Surround seems to push more to the center speaker, especially vocal ranges.

We did notice some extra foam on the Lariat sort of behind the door hinges on the unibody that are not there on the XLT, however.

That's a Hybrid thing, not used on the EB, I don't believe it varies trim to trim.

 

[icegradner]

12 is pretty low volume. did you gather data at higher volume? I think you'd see more differences in the 80+ decibel range and the road noise in a truck going 60 mph is probably higher than your spl.

Too many rock concerts? I find the volume over 10 to be painful and causes ringing in my ears after a short time.

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