My Real World Hybrid MPG

[fbov]

Congrats. You know more than the fuel gauge on my truck.

No, I can read a graph.

Seems to me a 250 Nm car motor that's pushing 200 Nm at 1,500 RPM is not deficient in low end torque.

What you've missed is that VVT and Atkinson were made for each other. Everyone's conventional engine has had an Atkinson mode for years. It's trivial, but there are key differences.
- A true Atkinson has a really high compression ratio (13.5:1), because
- it never runs less than 10% underfill, and
- it always has an EV assist, because it's made sacrifices to drivability.

The weakness of true Atkinson engines isn't low end torque, it's low end acceleration. At the piston speed where a conventional engine would switch to intake, an Atkinson is still making torque. That's how it gets more energy out of the fuel. That energy comes from the pistons, which can't accelerate as fast as a result.

Atkinsons rev slow.

Doesn't charge below zero? Where did you get that idea? Do you own a hybrid of any kind? The battery in my hybrid charges just fine with outside temps below 0C. If that was true there would be tons of people in Canada with dead hybrids all over the place.

Li-ion batteries cannot charge below 0C (32F). I've heard about the herds of dead hybrids, but that's NiMH, not Li-ion.

Remember that charging is a secondary operation, not required to drive the vehicle. 12v systems have a long performance history, and booting the HVB provides far more starting power than any 12v-based starter. Even with degraded output, below -20C (-2F), the HVB will have no problem turning over the ICE.

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[icegradner]

Li-ion batteries cannot charge below 0C (32F). I've heard about the herds of dead hybrids, but that's NiMH, not Li-ion.

That place seems to lack real world use data. Thousands of hybrids around the world charge and discharge batteries in colder temperatures than listed on that site. Mine seems to be one of them. I've been able to charge the battery in my NiMH equipped hybrid without running any heat, and the battery in my vehicle only gets heat and cooling from the cabin via a fan. Does the engine run more? Yes. Does the battery charge up, and allow me to EV? Yes. You can point to that site all day long, but it doesn't line up with the real world.

 

[fbov]

That place seems to lack real world use data. ... it doesn't line up with the real world.

Then explain why my hybrids seem to follow it to a T? I notice 32F (0C) but below 0F (-18C), it's a different car. You live near the coast?

Cold batteries are a self-correcting problem; use them and they warm up. The effects are transient; you have to pay attention. Start it at -30C and see how the hybrid drives in the first minute or two. Then we can talk.

 

[icegradner]

Then explain why my hybrids seem to follow it to a T? I notice 32F (0C) but below 0F (-18C), it's a different car. You live near the coast?

Cold batteries are a self-correcting problem; use them and they warm up. The effects are transient; you have to pay attention. Start it at -30C and see how the hybrid drives in the first minute or two. Then we can talk.

Must be Ford thing, my Toyota Hybrid doesn't. First you tell me it won't work a -0C, now it has to be -30C? Make up your mind! Never gets -30C where I live, cannot help you with that. -15C sometimes. As I said, yes it does take longer, but that's simply because it won't EV before the ICE reaches operating temperature, has nothing to do with the battery. That is how the system is designed to work! For the last two weeks it never got above -0C, my vehicle is parked outside. If I sit with the battery monitor up while driving, guess what, it starts charging, long before the engine reaches operating temperature, which can take 15-25 minutes on a cold day! It must be miracle!

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I drove to the post office, through drive by mailbox, and came home, so this is stop and go for 1.4 miles, with only .4 miles not using electric I’m guessing. That’s why the MPG number surprised me but someone else mentioned that I may need to let the computer figure it out once I have more miles in.

My thoughts (I don't have my hybrid yet but this is what I believe) you drove 1.4 miles to mail box and back taking almost 11 minutes. The ice probably furnished torque through the planetary gear set to power the equivalent of 0.4 miles of the trip but not necessarily by its self at any one time. The ice could be also generating current through the small motor/generator to the convertor which could use that current to send all or part to power the larger electric drive motor and to the 12v circuit and possibly to charge the HV battery. The portion of the torque furnished by the electric drive motor would be counted as the 1.0 mile electrically driven. The ice will run at the most efficient rpm as determined by the computer. Once the HV battery gets to a certain SOC the ice will be shut down and the HVB will furnish all the current needed. From what I have read here the trip to the mail box should be driven in economy with the "L" button pressed. Just guessing as I don't have my hybrid yet so try it and see what happens. Good luck!

 

[MtcARK]

In my first three days with the vehicle I am getting 40MPG. Today I got 47 over 24.4 miles of rural roads and town driving.

 

[solidshane]

What @Bushpilot said. This. Yes. I also do not believe the notes in the manual about premium fuel pertain to the hybrid; I think they are Ecoboost specific.

I will say this, though what burns most efficiently is ethanol free gasoline. Furthermore, if premium fuel is more efficient, for some reason, it's almost never more economical. (The money saved on mpg doesn't make up for the money spent on premium over regular).

The only instance where I would consider premium is when towing hauling, like the manual says, but like I previously stated, I'm not convinced it does anything for the hybrid, only the Ecoboost.

I am using ethanol-free gas and hopefully, I will be able to see if there is any difference. Will let folks know once I feel I have some sort of data.

 

[mikellmikell]

T

his Morning

 

[MavHy]

Usually average about 50% electric to and from work (15 miles each way, 1/3 60, 1/3 50, 1/3 35).
As it's gotten hotter (A/C) and I've not paid attention to hypermiling as much, I've dropped to......49.5

 

[D Janke]

I've driven a Ford Hybrid for the last 5 years and I've gotten quite adept to milking the most out of the mileage in city driving.
Light on acceleration, long and easy on braking, for the most part.
My Maverick Hybrid has 600 miles on it now, and MPG is sitting at 46.3.
I've had a 2.5 mile trip in town from a store back to home, where I got 0ver 70 mpg on that stretch.
I've also been shocked to see it kick into electric mode at freeway speeds when conditions are right!
In my mind, this is MY best vehicle purchase since I bought my 68 Super Bee for $500 in 1973

 

[clavicus]

I've driven a Ford Hybrid for the last 5 years and I've gotten quite adept to milking the most out of the mileage in city driving.
Light on acceleration, long and easy on braking, for the most part.
My Maverick Hybrid has 600 miles on it now, and MPG is sitting at 46.3.
I've had a 2.5 mile trip in town from a store back to home, where I got 0ver 70 mpg on that stretch.
I've also been shocked to see it kick into electric mode at freeway speeds when conditions are right!
In my mind, this is MY best vehicle purchase since I bought my 68 Super Bee for $500 in 1973

My best so far, really not sure how the stars aligned for this one. My average is close to 35 heh

 

[Matso]

Taken directly from the owner's manual: "FUEL QUALITY SELECTING THE CORRECT FUEL E161513 Your vehicle operates on regular unleaded gasoline with a minimum pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87." However it does go on to say: "For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel is most noticeable in hot weather as well as other conditions, for example when towing a trailer." It does not specify if this is for the 2.0 or the 2.5. But given the compression ratio for the Atkinson cycle at a considerably high 13:1, one might assume that it refers to the hybrid. This is because the primary function of higher octane fuels is to simply prevent the occurrence of predetonation (aka engine knock) so the engine can perform as efficiently as designed under those higher pressures. So, 91 octane and higher can be good in the 2.5 hybrid. But is it entirely necessary? Clearly not or the manfx would specify this as a requirement instead of a recommendation. In addition, modern engine designs include advanced knock sensors that quickly suppress predetonation to prevent engine damage. In summary: using 87 in the hybrid is completely acceptable and safe. But if you really desire a degree ( I have no idea how much) of increased efficiency and horsepower, and have the extra cash at the pump to pour it in; by all means go for it.

 

[Gullzway]

Pleased with my 2nd tank of gas.

 

[mamboman777]

Taken directly from the owner's manual: "FUEL QUALITY SELECTING THE CORRECT FUEL E161513 Your vehicle operates on regular unleaded gasoline with a minimum pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87." However it does go on to say: "For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel is most noticeable in hot weather as well as other conditions, for example when towing a trailer." It does not specify if this is for the 2.0 or the 2.5. But given the compression ratio for the Atkinson cycle at a considerably high 13:1, one might assume that it refers to the hybrid. This is because the primary function of higher octane fuels is to simply prevent the occurrence of predetonation (aka engine knock) so the engine can perform as efficiently as designed under those higher pressures. So, 91 octane and higher can be good in the 2.5 hybrid. But is it entirely necessary? Clearly not or the manfx would specify this as a requirement instead of a recommendation. In addition, modern engine designs include advanced knock sensors that quickly suppress predetonation to prevent engine damage. In summary: using 87 in the hybrid is completely acceptable and safe. But if you really desire a degree ( I have no idea how much) of increased efficiency and horsepower, and have the extra cash at the pump to pour it in; by all means go for it.

The theoretical compression ratio is 13:1. However, since the valves are open during part of the compression stroke, the actual compression ratio is much less.

 

[flashfearless]

The theoretical compression ratio is 13:1. However, since the valves are open during part of the compression stroke, the actual compression ratio is much less.

FordBossMe (Ford Master Mechanic on YouTube) just posted a video on octane and compression ratios. In the comments, I asked him about this, and according to him, those compression numbers is measured when the valve is fully closed, so He's suggesting a high octane would be appropriate on the Mav Hybrid.

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