Hybrid power, how does it feel?

[Delbert]

The future of automotive drivetrains is the hybrid. They don't sound right, but they are fast, powerful and simple.

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[MojoJojo]

There is no way to compare your Jeep to a Hybrid of any car.... A hybrid isn't built for speed.

Unless that hybrid is a Volvo S60 T8 Polestar. That hybrid beast is meant to be faaassst! 0-60 in 4.3 seconds lol

 

[Eagle11]

Unless that hybrid is a Volvo S60 T8 Polestar. That hybrid beast is meant to be faaassst! 0-60 in 4.3 seconds lol

LOL, try a Tesla Plaid if you want speed...

 

[MojoJojo]

LOL, try a Tesla Plaid if you want speed...

Well yea Tesla aint hybrid, its fully electric so no comparison whatsoever with that monster of a car.

 

[Delbert]

I like the Porsche Cayenne hybrid 455 hp 4.7sec 0-60 and plugin to boot. Not quite as simple as the Mav

 

[Bushpilot]

So, as a teenager, driving my Dad's Maverick, I once timed the 0-60. My timing was imprecise then, and my memory is even less precise now, but I remember it being 13-14 seconds.

This Maverick should work out OK.

 

[Proflig8tor]

I have not been able to find a hybrid escape in my area to test drive to use as an analogue, so I was curious for those of you who have driven one, how powerful does it feel? I have a 2014 AWD rav4 that makes 176HP with its 4 cylinder engine and I'm pretty happy with it. Would the power/torque feel about the same or do you think it will be better?

Test drove a Hybrid Escape as a comparison to a 2.0 EB Maverick. My two daily drivers are a Tesla 3 and a VW MK7 GTI.

For starters, the 2.0EB Fuel Economy indicator was at 15.8 and the Hybrid 37.4. Certainly not a scientific comparison, but both vehicles are doing test drives around the same circuit.

The 2.0 EB feels a lot like the EA888 in my GTI. It takes a two count to get on the boil, then pulls strong. Driven aggressively it pulls a lot stronger through it's torque curve. The Maverick feels to have more at the top end, while the GTI is biased to a lot of boost at low RPM which gives it a very flat torque curve.

The Hybrid in the Escape feels a lot like my Tesla in stop-and-go traffic. The regen is controlled on the brake pedal and Ford has a cool efficiency tool on your dash that gives you feedback on every stop as you work towards the goal of 100% regen and no friction brake use. The gas engine uses the regen motor/alternator to start. This motor has a lot of torque and spins the 2.5 gas engine into operation so smoothly that you do not even notice the transition, even when listening carefully for it. The tell is a slight steering wheel vibration. The Hybrid has more *instant* smooth torque off the line, which is what Tesla owners expect. It is not fast. Guessing about an 8 second 0 to 60. But it is well suited to the truck. Plenty of torque off the line then no spinning or torque steer like the GTI has.

WIsh Ford would program the regen to activate whenever the driver lifts off the accelerator. The default setting for the Tesla is to regen at 2/10th's a G, which feels like a natural, smooth, stop and works to capture 100% of the available regen all the time. This is a software decision, so maybe as Ford's buyers learn the system someone might write the code to facilitate the one foot operation that EV drivers enjoy (less fatiguing and more efficient).

Surprisingly the Hybrid is MUCH smoother starting and stopping than the auto start / stop on the 2.o EcoBoost. The 2.0 stop-start was jarring for someone not used to it. That sort of operation, (especially if the driver is aggressive in stop-and-go traffic) must just be hell for thermal stresses on the turbo side because they have to somehow keep heat in the catalytic converter to assure it's operation and life. Ford has great engineers on that, but common sense suggests that the low demands (stresses) on the Hybrid system would make for a longer-lasting car/truck thingy. On the Hybrid forums folks discuss having to replace the brake pads less frequently on the Hybrids (100,000+ miles). We've owned two other vehicles with versions of this 2.5 engine that we sold at 170,000+ miles in perfect condition.

Other reports suggest it is worthwhile to keep the CVT fluid changed on regular (guessing anywhere from 40K to 70K miles) as the bearing wear can allow parts to contact the side of the housing which makes a lot of metal and destroys the system (although it appeared some drivers just press on until the bad parts grind their way completely through the case :-O )

So, my semi-educated guess is that the Hybrid is a smoother, better driving, longer-lasting setup than the gas engine. Eventually, (as batteries get cheaper and more available) they will build a 4wd electric version of this vehicle (or follow on design) and THAT will be what we really want. This XLT Maverick will run me about $26k which is a great deal. But, when the Cybertruck get built I'll pay the $50k (Tesla offered for the dual motor at launch) or the $100,000k the thing will probably cost. Once you drive an electric truck that is all you (or anyone) is going to want. Just think of everything we could toss out of a Maverick if it were fully electric. (2.5L engine, radiators that dump 80% of the energy overboard as waste heat, emissions (intake and exhaust), transmission, and transfer case, driveshafts and gas tanks ... in exchange for batteries and a control module.

Bottom line: I ordered two Mavericks with the Hybrid powertrain. The hybrid is the best of both worlds in a proven package on it's 4th generation of refinement.

 

[fbov]

WIsh Ford would program the regen to activate whenever the driver lifts off the accelerator. ...

I see off-throttle regen braking of about 0.2x my speed, doubling to 0.4x in ECO mode.

 

[Proflig8tor]

Yep. The Maverick does a little regen off the throttle. I'd like it to be a lot more.

As EV's evolve and drivers learn, the trend has been towards more and more regen. The Tesla was like the Escape Hybrid initially. With each new vehicle the regen has increased from none, to little, to 2/10 G but "off" by default, to "on" by default (with 10%-15% more range with "on" selected) to now the Lucid Air defaults to 3/10G (with even more range from a similarly sized battery).

I think Ford (and VW) is doing this for a seamless user experience with gas cars. Many friends do NOT like regen the first time they drive a Tesla. After about 5 minutes they get used to it and after ten minutes they like it.

Best option that I hope Ford adopts is to let the driver select the amount of regen they want. Thank you for point out "Eco Mode" which I did not find during my brief test drives.

I'm just happy to see the Hybrid exist in this vehicle and at this price point. I think it is a great platform.

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Side note. As an experienced EV owner, the Lightning is kind of intimidating from a charging standpoint. A Tesla Model 3 SR+ is very easy to charge from almost anything because it just doesn't use much power to begin with. It is rated at about 135MPGe. The Lightning is more likely to be somewhere around 60MPGe with at least a 130KWH battery. That thing is going to need to be fed a lot of electricity from a 100A breaker. Most of us do not have an extra 100A in our home panels (at least we don't). Many electricians are going to be really busy when that thing launches.

The Maverick is a lot easier for Ford buyers to adopt to.

 

[sseiler]

I have not been able to find a hybrid escape in my area to test drive to use as an analogue, so I was curious for those of you who have driven one, how powerful does it feel? I have a 2014 AWD rav4 that makes 176HP with its 4 cylinder engine and I'm pretty happy with it. Would the power/torque feel about the same or do you think it will be better?

Honestly, don’t get your hopes up that it’s as powerful as the rav 4. I’ve test driven it too, and it is surprisingly powerful. My IONIQ hybrid on the other hand… well, I feel it’d have more power if I Flintstoned it. Now, my guess is that the Mav hybrid will fall somewhere in between. For me, I could tell the rav 4 was AWD. It really had a unique feel when I hit the gas. I feel like the Mav would perform better as an AWD. Now, I literally and admittedly have no scientific basis for that assumption. As a hybrid driver though, I did almost get the rav 4 hybrid exactly because the performance was so impressive.

 

[fbov]

Yep. The Maverick does a little regen off the throttle. I'd like it to be a lot more.

Have you tried "L?"

That thing is going to need to be fed a lot of electricity

You're assuming the user empties the HVB every day. In actual use, you only need charging capacity to replace what you use. That should make the charging discussion more palatable. (Charging and range are why I'm in a hybrid.)

I could tell the rav 4 was AWD

If the recent model, you were looking at a 3-motor AWD system with a whole lot more power than the 2-motor AWD Ford uses. Lincoln is another story.

 

[sseiler]

Have you tried "L?"

You're assuming the user empties the HVB every day. In actual use, you only need charging capacity to replace what you use. That should make the charging discussion more palatable. (Charging and range are why I'm in a hybrid.)

If the recent model, you were looking at a 3-motor AWD system with a whole lot more power than the 2-motor AWD Ford uses. Lincoln is another story.

Cool! Didn’t know that! Thanks!

Since the Mav hybrid is 2WD, do you expect it to have even less power than Ford AWD hybrid (e.g., Escape) - or will it not make a difference?

 

[JASmith]

LOL, try a Tesla Plaid if you want speed...

Tesla can go far or fast, but not both. Do a plaid run, and you're basically ready to limp home to recharge already, lol! At least with an actual hybrid you still have the energy density of gasoline which kicks lithium battery's butt by a mile.

There is no way to compare your Jeep to a Hybrid of any car.... A hybrid isn't built for speed.

There are hybrids that are built primarily for performance over economy. Everything from the Ferrari SF90 Stradale hybrid to the Rav4 Prime hybrid which is the fastest version of the Rav4 you can buy. Heck, even for the 2022 Hyundai Tucson I was shopping, the slowest version of the vehicle is the non-hybrid, and the hybrid and plugin hybrid are the higher performance ones with much more total horsepower.

 

[Eagle11]

Tesla can go far or fast, but not both. Do a plaid run, and you're basically ready to limp home to recharge already, lol! At least with an actual hybrid you still have the energy density of gasoline which kicks lithium battery's butt by a mile.

There are hybrids that are built primarily for performance over economy. Everything from the Ferrari SF90 Stradale hybrid to the Rav4 Prime hybrid which is the fastest version of the Rav4 you can buy. Heck, even for the 2022 Hyundai Tucson I was shopping, the slowest version of the vehicle is the non-hybrid, and the hybrid and plugin hybrid are the higher performance ones with much more total horsepower.

Sorry Charlie, the Tesla Plaid, has speed and Range too, a neighbor has one, 300+ miles.

RAV4 Prime is a plug-in hybrid, not the same thing as a Hybrid.

Try again

 

[JASmith]

Sorry Charlie, the Tesla Plaid, has speed and Range too, a neighbor has one, 300+ miles.

Yeah, it can go 300+ miles in plaid mode full acceleration... uh huh, and tell us about those aeronautical pigs you were raving about.

RAV4 Prime is a plug-in hybrid, not the same thing as a Hybrid.

Literally a type of hybrid, but OK. In any case, the point was that its pretty obvious that many hybrids are built for performance, and not exclusively as the low powered economy versions. https://www.autobytel.com/top-10-cars/high-horsepower-cars/hybrid-cars/

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