Hybrid engine performance question

[Automate]

But it absolutely is available in "series hybrid" mode, when ICE generates power for the traction motor.

No it can't. If it did, it would be breaking the law of energy conservation.

You can't take power from the ICE to generate electricity and then power a motor with that electricity and create more power to the wheels than the ICE produces.

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[Arukoru]

Just look at the chr to make yourself feel better. That thing has like 121 hp with worse mileage.

 

[Darnon]

No it can't. If it did, it would be breaking the law of energy conservation.

You can't take power from the ICE to generate electricity and then power a motor with that electricity and create more power to the wheels than the ICE produces.

You can take power from the ICE into electricity to power a motor that generates more torque for the given speed of operation.

 

[Automate]

You can take power from the ICE into electricity to power a motor that generates more *torque* for the given speed of operation.

Yes, you can. But the Hybrid already has an eCVT that can also convert engine power to increased wheel torque. And it does it more efficiently than converting ICE power to electrical energy and then another conversion back to mechanical energy.

 

[clavicus]

Yes, you can. But the Hybrid already has an eCVT that can also convert engine power to increased wheel torque. And it does it more efficiently than converting ICE power to electrical energy and then another conversion back to mechanical energy.

I believe that’s exactly how it works though, at lower speeds ICE+gen motor is generating electricity for the traction motor, not applying force to the ring gear for direct drive. Towards 40 mph the ratio started trending more toward direct drive and less generator.

 

[brnpttmn]

Yes, you can. But the Hybrid already has an eCVT that can also convert engine power to increased wheel torque. And it does it more efficiently than converting ICE power to electrical energy and then another conversion back to mechanical energy.

Are you arguing that series hybrid systems/mode are a scam?

 

[Automate]

Are you arguing that series hybrid systems/mode are a scam?

No, if you read my last post.

Yes, you can.

But there are good reasons why parallel hybrids are much more common.

Ford eCVT hybrids do operate in series mode when going in reverse. The ICE does not have a mechanical way to drive the vehicle in reverse. So the vehicle always uses the traction motor power to back up and if needed, uses the ICE to charge the battery if it gets low.

 

[brnpttmn]

No, if you read my last post.


But there are good reasons why parallel hybrids are much more common.

Ford eCVT hybrids do operate in series mode when going in reverse. The ICE does not have a mechanical way to drive the vehicle in reverse. So the vehicle always uses the traction motor power to back up and if needed, uses the ICE to charge the battery if it gets low.

They aren't though (at least not pure parallel hybrids). Most hybrid designs today, including the Maverick, are ... well ... hybrid (series/parallel) and will often operate in series mode (particularly in city driving). The Maverick certainly can propel itself forward with only the traction motor.

 

[710-oil-614]

TFL did a 0-60 run at altitude and 400+ lbs of passengers in sport mode and ticked of 0-60 in 7.44 seconds.

Some people see "hybrid" and just automatically think it must be shitty performance.

Tells me they never drove a vehicle from the 80s where 0-60 was commonly achieved over 10 seconds. Hell an 84 corvette barely hit 60 in less than 7 seconds and ran a 15.2 qtr miles. The 84 mustang

 

[MakinDoForNow]

They aren't though (at least not pure parallel hybrids). Most hybrid designs today, including the Maverick, are ... well ... hybrid (series/parallel) and will often operate in series mode (particularly in city driving). The Maverick certainly can propel itself forward with only the traction motor.

And will probably do so depending on drive battery SOC where ice rpm could be dropped low enough to allow mg1 to generate current for mg2 perhaps helping to control battery temperature (if needed). I think it's obvious that it mg2 is designed to be supported by a second battery or at least a battery with a higher rate of discharge. Also the 37 rating is probably at 72 degrees (or whatever) and the possible rate of charge/discharge is increased as battery temperature increases. If battery can be safely held say at 90 degrees what would be the rating at that temperature (41?, 44?, ?) Just a thought.

 

[Automate]

They aren't though (at least not pure parallel hybrids). Most hybrid designs today, including the Maverick, are ... well ... hybrid (series/parallel) and will often operate in series mode (particularly in city driving). The Maverick certainly can propel itself forward with only the traction motor.

Of course, all parallel hybrids can also operate at times in serial mode.

But this topic is about maximum acceleration and power. And this whole discussion has been about what mode provides the most power to the wheels.

 

[brnpttmn]

And will probably do so depending on drive battery SOC where ice rpm could be dropped low enough to allow mg1 to generate current for mg2 perhaps helping to control battery temperature (if needed). I think it's obvious that it mg2 is designed to be supported by a second battery or at least a battery with a higher rate of discharge. Also the 37 rating is probably at 72 degrees (or whatever) and the possible rate of charge/discharge is increased as battery temperature increases. If battery can be safely held say at 90 degrees what would be the rating at that temperature (41?, 44?, ?) Just a thought.

IIRC, 3 of the 5 EPA litmus test cycles are done at 72° but 1 is done at 20° to measure a cold weather efficiency delta and 1 is done at 98° to measure a high temp/AC efficiency delta.

Of course, all parallel hybrids can also operate at times in serial mode.

But this topic is about maximum acceleration and power. And this whole discussion has been about what mode provides the most power to the wheels.

From the battery, but not from the ICE, which is what we were discussing when you argued that the Maverick traction motor could only make 36hp when the available evidence suggests the traction motor in the Maverick maxes out at 126hp (because the battery and ICE can feed it 94kW).

 

[fbov]

No it can't. If it did, it would be breaking the law of energy conservation. ...

I'm sorry, but that's not true. No physical laws are broken.

And it does it more efficiently than converting ICE power to electrical energy and then another conversion back to mechanical energy.

If you've ever driven a manual transmission, you know ICE are incredibly weak at low RPM. The electric motor wins every time.

Imagine a system where you can run the ICE at high power, independent of vehicle speed, and produce 25% more torque at the wheels than the ICE is capable of creating. That's "series hybrid."

But there are good reasons why parallel hybrids are much more common.

Ford eCVT hybrids do operate in series mode when going in reverse.

Most hybrids are torque converter replacement designs, using conventional geared automatics. They are inherently parallel. The TRW system is inherently series/parallel. A very different beast, which is in EV mode in reverse.

I only see series mode if I floor it at low speed.

 

[BMCGC]

Time will tell if the aftermarket tuners want to jump into the hybrid market.

Our 19 hybrid Accord has plenty of power, hit the gas on an on ramp and it zips right up to 70 mph.

I had a 5 speed 03 Civic. 1.7L, 115hp/110tq. At 300k, I was still getting 38 mpg, it was a fun car to drive, lots of low-end torque/power, 6750 redline, only weighed about 2600#.

A guy in a Chevy 1500 ran a light and I t-boned him at 55 mph. Totaled the Civic. If I still had the Civic I would have opted for the AWD 2.0 Maverick.

At 38 mpg, cheap insurance and no payment, the Civic was dirt cheap as far as cost of ownership goes and I would not want to replace it with a 23-24k hybrid.

 

[Bmr4mav]

Nothing is going to come out that actually does anything. The 2.5L engine operates almost like a generator. Thermal efficiency is the goal. So no air intake, exhaust mods, etc are going to do anything to get your more performance.

What would get you quicker acceleration is Motor 2 improvements. Things like a more powerful motor controller than can send more current which equates to more torque. That's not something that is easily done and you likely will not see that ever done with a Maverick. The battery would also have to be able to handle the increased current load.

Example. Nissan Leafs are slow as shit but their motors are actually "detuned" via weak ass controllers and batteries. Put a more powerful controller and battery connected to a Leaf motor and you've got yourself a quick ride.

This CRX is running a custom higher amp controller.

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