Experience with disabling the "Telematics control unit module"?

[Bob The Builder]

Oh that is just great. I did not realize that Ford could monitor all my movements in the Mav!!!! On top of that LEO's could get a court order to subpoena these records?

Now they will find out every Wednesday night we drive to the farmstead for my Xtra Large Maple soft serve and find out on average I make two trips a week to Wally World for groceries. On top of all that one more trip to get my weekly 12" super sized roast beef sub at the local general store.

Best of luck Ford.

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[everdrive]

That was my point, are they using the phones mic for audio. Bluetooth is just used to tie the phone or other device to the system.

What I'll say is that the privacy folks on the internet are not always precise regarding the facts. Concerning a similar topic, people talk about how Google Home or Amazon Alexa can record your conversations. Which is true, but a full recording of your conversation is sort of incidental. Voice is processed by sending to the server, and so some small portion of your voice content may make it the home base, but in very specific circumstances. The implied claim (whether implied intentionally or not) is that "you're being recorded wholesale by the company" -- which is simply not true.

In other words, there is not always enough attention paid to getting the details correct when looking at privacy concerns, and when concerns are identified, they are often catastrophized. This can be true even when the actual facts are plenty concerning all on their own.

In any case, I would suspect you're correct here -- voice probably can be recorded under specific circumstances, which is a far cry from constantly being recorded by Ford. For the privacy folks' concerns, I'd say the concern is that as the user, you don't actually know when you're being recorded, even if it's the vast minority of the time.

 

[mav_kev]

Your ignorance is palpable. That's not the purpose of the data accumulation - to follow us around. Rather than try to disparage others it's usually best to just remain silent.

As is your superiority complex. I'll exit this thread and let you all have your fun without my snark.

 

[RedRider]

So there is a mic inside the cabin? That would be news to all of us I think.

Interesting note in the news this morning. The NHTSA has just announced that per the successful Massachusetts right-to-repair court case, all cars sold from now on from all manufacturers will be required to have a standard telematics WiFi package to allow independent mechanics the same access to the operational data as the factory mechanics, leveling the playing field. The NHTSA has now dropped their concern about the bad guys being able to hack your vehicle.

 

[colinl]

Interesting note in the news this morning. The NHTSA has just announced that per the successful Massachusetts right-to-repair court case, all cars sold from now on from all manufacturers will be required to have a standard telematics WiFi package to allow independent mechanics the same access to the operational data as the factory mechanics, leveling the playing field. The NHTSA has now dropped their concern about the bad guys being able to hack your vehicle.

Wow, I had not heard about that. (Granted, it just happened yesterday...) https://techcrunch.com/2023/08/23/automakers-now-have-to-comply-with-mas-right-to-repair-law/

As a consumer, I do want this, long-term. I think everyone is better served by 3rd parties having the ability to diagnose and repair. Right now, though, it concerns because Ford's telemetry is extremely powerful. Ford dealerships can do a lot with only your VIN, and your VIN is often publicly accessible online and always visible from the outside of your vehicle. A Ford dealership doesn't need any special authorization to pull your error codes, mileage and so on. (Side note: can they see the vehicle location? I don't know.)

FordPass is different even though it also uses the telemetry. There's already a lot of exposure and Ford better be appropriately protecting the infrastructure, access and configuration of the systems that support FordPass.

 

[rlhdweman]

What I'll say is that the privacy folks on the internet are not always precise regarding the facts. Concerning a similar topic, people talk about how Google Home or Amazon Alexa can record your conversations. Which is true, but a full recording of your conversation is sort of incidental. Voice is processed by sending to the server, and so some small portion of your voice content may make it the home base, but in very specific circumstances. The implied claim (whether implied intentionally or not) is that "you're being recorded wholesale by the company" -- which is simply not true.

In other words, there is not always enough attention paid to getting the details correct when looking at privacy concerns, and when concerns are identified, they are often catastrophized. This can be true even when the actual facts are plenty concerning all on their own.

In any case, I would suspect you're correct here -- voice probably can be recorded under specific circumstances, which is a far cry from constantly being recorded by Ford. For the privacy folks' concerns, I'd say the concern is that as the user, you don't actually know when you're being recorded, even if it's the vast minority of the time.

My best friend has one of those Alexa pucks in his house, him & his wife were discussing a particular product they were interested in, within 5 minutes both of their phones were repeatedly showing ads for those products, one phone was within earshot, the other was not, privacy is disappearing these days.

 

[sww]

While disabling the telematics module is only a small reduction in leaked personal information, the mere fact that I can not control it is troublesome in general. I ha second vehicle made by Chevy with onstar. I had actually subscribed to it to get notified if someone breaks into my car. My discussion with onstar whether a broken side window is considered a break in that resulted in an alarm surprised me most. The operator insisted that a glas break event was not an alarm worthy event. For some time my insurance sent me letters requesting my current mileage. I usually ignored those requests. To my surprise, during a recent onstar account review I found out that onstar had my insurance listed. Information that I never gave to onstar. So the insurance company sneaked into onstar to retrieve information that I did not authorize onstar to give out.
'anyone saying this is not a big deal could be grouped along with those people who think that when police ask you to search your home, vehicle or person one should agree. If you have nothing to hide there is no reason to deny such search. Just because some data appears to be innocent data, to some entity that data may be valuable beyond your imagination and can be used against you in some cases. You may have heard of cell tower sweeps capturing anyonewho was in a particular area. While spying on your cell data is technically not legal without court order, cell tower sweeps are not covered by that rule. Police love that capability throwing out a net to see who was near a scene of interest. Now throw in the growing capabilities available with AI and circumstantial evidence against someone becomes a real possibility.
Assume, you are in an area where a crime has been committed. A cell tower sweep picks up your presence. you may have just realized that you needed to be somewhere in a hurry. Now your position data may now look to someone like you are fleeing an area where a crime has been committed. Some one will take a real close look into why . Let your imagination run wild.

 

[Skyline]

While disabling the telematics module is only a small reduction in leaked personal information, the mere fact that I can not control it is troublesome in general.

Both, the magnitude of leaked information and not being able to control it is somewhat arguable. Ford's privacy policies, a number of them, pretty much makes it clear that the data collection isn't small. Disabling the TCM and not installing the FordPass app somewhat limits data collection, but doing so also disable the "cool features" for the shine new vehicle. Most people love these features and care not about data collections. I did, still do but that does not mean there's no data collection about my vehicle(s).

It starts with the dealer, that collects lots of information about the buyer. Most of that information is necessary for purchasing the vehicle, even if it is a cash payment. The collected information is shared with car manufacturer, its affiliates and selected third-parties. Take for example CarFax. The dealer sells your data to CarFax and in return, the dealer gives you a free account to CarFax. Once you log in to CarFax, they have your vehicle's mileage, tire pressure, repair records, maintenance schedule, etc. In another word, your dealer sold their access to the telemetry data of the vehicle to CarFax. What CarFax does with this data, like sharing it with affiliates and/or selling it to a third-party is not unreasonable to suspect.

Within a year, I've received two, free CarFax accounts. One via the purchase of the Maverick, while other for buying the Ridgeline. I've disabled the TCM in the Maverick; Ford, the dealer and CarFax didn't have the correct mileage, just estimate. Well, until the Maverick had been serviced and that record had been shared all around, including CarFax. Even the independent service station record appeared in the repair records.

My Ridgeline does not have an internet access on its own. It relies on the Honda app and the smartphone to send the telemetry data to Honda server(s). I am yet to connect my smartphone to the Ridgeline and probably never will. Carfax can have my mileage estimate and repair record, at least that's my intent.

There's really not much one can do to protect the privacy data. There's way too much money to be made in selling your data and everybody wants a piece of that...

 

[scotty]

. Glad you have no issues.
I was going to pull fuse 11 so that my 12volt battery would not be drain overnight.

I been testing the battery and its show 12v in the morning. Also got message the other day saying low battery.

Question; If I pull the fuse will i still be about to use fob for opening and locking the doors?
Will I be able to use the door combination buttons to unlock, lock doors?
Do you know of any other items I may lose control of by pulling fuse 11.

 

[Waterick]

. . . . . . . I was going to pull fuse 11 so that my 12volt battery would not be drain overnight.

I been testing the battery and its show 12v in the morning. Also got message the other day saying low battery.

Question; If I pull the fuse will i still be about to use fob for opening and locking the doors?
Will I be able to use the door combination buttons to unlock, lock doors?
Do you know of any other items I may lose control of by pulling fuse 11.

I pulled my fuse 11 on my '24 Lariat in January at about 2 months old. Never set up Ford Pass on truck or used it. So far noted nothing on truck that does not work. Proximity functions, fobs even remote start with fob works. I do not have the keypad, but I sure it would work. Don't expect things like vehicle tracking or location services to work, however. So far, courtesy lights always come on upon entry. I know I've lightened the demand on the battery. Question is: will it be enough given the small battery and the BMS set up? I have a voltage monitor through the OBD port via Scangauge II that I check (after opening door and activating lights) that usually reads somewhere between 11.3 and 12 volts depending how long since last driven. Never gone over a week, but 5 days is not uncommon. I still have factory battery.

 

[scotty]

I pulled my fuse 11 on my '24 Lariat in January at about 2 months old. Never set up Ford Pass on truck or used it. So far noted nothing on truck that does not work. Proximity functions, fobs even remote start with fob works. I do not have the keypad, but I sure it would work. Don't expect things like vehicle tracking or location services to work, however. So far, courtesy lights always come on upon entry. I know I've lightened the demand on the battery. Question is: will it be enough given the small battery and the BMS set up? I have a voltage monitor through the OBD port via Scangauge II that I check (after opening door and activating lights) that usually reads somewhere between 11.3 and 12 volts depending how long since last driven. Never gone over a week, but 5 days is not uncommon. I still have factory battery.

Very specific info. , well needed.
I also have the small battery that came with truck.

It seems like if you were getting only 11.3v, then the truck wouldn't even start. but it does in your case.
I don't know how that can be explained.

 

[Waterick]

Ref: @scotty
I think the 11.3v was/is transitory, I believe that before I approached the vehicle it was much higher than that voltage and probably recovered some by the time I hit the start button. Remember, the hybrid only uses the 12v battery to "wake up" the HVB. Also, I earlier forgot to mention that I keep my fobs in Faraday pouches until I head to the truck, again lowering demands on the 12v battery.

 

[Ozarkbeard]

the hybrid only uses the 12v battery to "wake up" the HVB.

This
The 12v battery only needs enough capacity to close relays that engage the HVB. The HVB is the battery that starts a Hybrid's InternalCombustionEngine (ICE), using motor/generator 1 (assuming it even needs to initially start at all). There is no 12v starter like the ecoboost has.

 

[scotty]

Ref: @scotty
I think the 11.3v was/is transitory, I believe that before I approached the vehicle it was much higher than that voltage and probably recovered some by the time I hit the start button. Remember, the hybrid only uses the 12v battery to "wake up" the HVB. Also, I earlier forgot to mention that I keep my fobs in Faraday pouches until I head to the truck, again lowering demands on the 12v battery.

You keep fob in faraday: I wonder how far, approximately the fob could be away from truck so there is no transmitting

The faraday would be a good idea for those who like to store fob in truck if they go into a store, at work etc as a preventive from the potential of losing their fob.

 

[Waterick]

You keep fob in faraday: I wonder how far, approximately the fob could be away from truck so there is no transmitting

The faraday would be a good idea for those who like to store fob in truck if they go into a store, at work etc as a preventive from the potential of losing their fob.

If you store the fob in a faraday in the truck, you have to have it "visible" to the truck for it to operate. My faraday pouches have side pockets for this purpose. I just keep the pouch on me and move the fob to the side pocket before using truck. Even once truck is running, it needs to see the fob to shift it from park. As far as distance from vehicle; don't know and I guess that it could vary based on the fob's battery state. I park close to my residence so the faraday was a good plan for me. Enhanced security (if any) just a bonus.

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