EV Deep Dive - Ford/Toyota

[Chops]

Very interesting analysis of how Chinese EV’s are forcing Toyota & Ford to “abandon ship” and “build an ark” respectively.

Toyota is abandoning its long established dependence on JIT & CI, while Ford is building an ark to survive the upcoming controlled demolition of Ford…

It is an hour long video that most won’t watch - but those that do will gain some insights into the purpose of Ford’s EV skunkworks. With insights into the current relationship between the Ford CEO and the Ford Family - along with the impact of the Unions & their pensions and the Dealer Network too.

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[The Cyber Orange Guy.]

Sign me in. I gonna watch it.

 

[Scott Asheville]

I'll watch it, but I already know that obstacles the American OEMs are facing. TBD if they will survive the 2030s. Absent incredible change, zero chance they keep current market share, which is a fraction of what Detroit enjoyed back in the day.

• Unions. Enough said. Unions killed GM, until the taxpayer stepped in to resurrrect it.
• Arrogance. If you listen to the American OEMs, they're an arrogant bunch. Even American journalists based in Michigan are arrogant and insular.
• Lack of coherent and consistent national industrial policy. You can't run a business when the rules swing dramatically every 4 years. Leading to tens of billions in writeoffs.
• Company culture. It's not enough that the CEO sees the problem. He/she has tens of thousands of employees set in their ways and not seeing past their noses. Good luck getting them to see an inch past their next paycheck.
• A stock market obsessed with quarterly results. Leading to short term decisions that pad CEO bonuses while killing the company. See Stellantis and Carlos Tavares.
• Nimble, unencumbered American challengers. Tesla. Rivian. Bad mouth them if you want, but they are vertically integrated and they move fast. Their tech stack is 5 years ahead of Detroit, as exampled by Rivian being paid billions by VW for their software and electrical system.
• And of course, superior competition from abroad. Not just the Chinese, but the Koreans and the Japanese.

 

[Cherokee]

I’m too old to care but I’ll watch the video anyway.
Will assume it’s all A I and chat GTP click bait.

 

[Chops]

I’m too old to care but I’ll watch the video anyway.
Will assume it’s all A I and chat GTP click bait.

Let’s just say it is not “AI Slop”.
It is interesting, insightful, and thought provoking AI - if you’re curious about EV manufacturing

I dislike “AI Slop” links very much. This is not one…

 

[Chops]

I'll watch it, but I already know that obstacles the American OEMs are facing. TBD if they will survive the 2030s. Absent incredible change, zero chance they keep current market share, which is a fraction of what Detroit enjoyed back in the day.

• Unions. Enough said. Unions killed GM, until the taxpayer stepped in to resurrrect it.
• Arrogance. If you listen to the American OEMs, they're an arrogant bunch. Even American journalists based in Michigan are arrogant and insular.
• Lack of coherent and consistent national industrial policy. You can't run a business when the rules swing dramatically every 4 years. Leading to tens of billions in writeoffs.
• Company culture. It's not enough that the CEO sees the problem. He/she has tens of thousands of employees set in their ways and not seeing past their noses. Good luck getting them to see an inch past their next paycheck.
• A stock market obsessed with quarterly results. Leading to short term decisions that pad CEO bonuses while killing the company. See Stellantis and Carlos Tavares.
• Nimble, unencumbered American challengers. Tesla. Rivian. Bad mouth them if you want, but they are vertically integrated and they move fast. Their tech stack is 5 years ahead of Detroit, as exampled by Rivian being paid billions by VW for their software and electrical system.
• And of course, superior competition from abroad. Not just the Chinese, but the Koreans and the Japanese.

Agree & the video touches on your points.

What surprised me was the Japanese move away from Just In Time (JIT) & Continuous Improvement (CI). Did not see that coming…

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

Those automakers that do not embrace EV quickly will go the way of Kodak.

Kodak: "Digital is a niche. It will never replace film."

U.S. Automaker: "EV is a niche. It will never replace ICE."

 

[Chops]

Those automakers that do not embrace EV quickly will go the way of Kodak.

Kodak: "Digital is a niche. It will never replace film."

U.S. Automaker: "EV is a niche. It will never replace ICE."

True. Although “EV is a niche” is a media statement not an automaker’s statement.

But as the video explained - moving too quick on a bad EV design is costly. GM, Ford, Toyota, and even Tesla learned that lesson the hard way.

 

[Cherokee]

Those automakers that do not embrace EV quickly will go the way of Kodak.

Kodak: "Digital is a niche. It will never replace film."

U.S. Automaker: "EV is a niche. It will never replace ICE."

Good points but !

Would not slow and getting it right the first time be wise ?

It will replace ICE when the dinosaur juice runs so low it gets incredibly expensive or runs out.

Your third point, see the above comment.

Something to ponder on the, Tree Of Woe”
Me thinks.

 

[tiktokbrainrot]

I'll watch it, but I already know that obstacles the American OEMs are facing. TBD if they will survive the 2030s. Absent incredible change, zero chance they keep current market share, which is a fraction of what Detroit enjoyed back in the day.

• Unions. Enough said. Unions killed GM, until the taxpayer stepped in to resurrrect it.
• Arrogance. If you listen to the American OEMs, they're an arrogant bunch. Even American journalists based in Michigan are arrogant and insular.
• Lack of coherent and consistent national industrial policy. You can't run a business when the rules swing dramatically every 4 years. Leading to tens of billions in writeoffs.
• Company culture. It's not enough that the CEO sees the problem. He/she has tens of thousands of employees set in their ways and not seeing past their noses. Good luck getting them to see an inch past their next paycheck.
• A stock market obsessed with quarterly results. Leading to short term decisions that pad CEO bonuses while killing the company. See Stellantis and Carlos Tavares.
• Nimble, unencumbered American challengers. Tesla. Rivian. Bad mouth them if you want, but they are vertically integrated and they move fast. Their tech stack is 5 years ahead of Detroit, as exampled by Rivian being paid billions by VW for their software and electrical system.
• And of course, superior competition from abroad. Not just the Chinese, but the Koreans and the Japanese.

Unions didnt force GM into providing a narrow product line or their vast array of poor management decisions. Frankly, if you cant afford to pay your workers decently to the point a union is necessary, you shouldn't eb in business. Especially when toyota and honda are paying their non union workers comparable wages and have no issue offering budget models built int he states vs overseas. The worker wages are not the issue there.

But Americans will find any excuse to treat their workers like total garbage in the name of corporate profits.

 

[Cherokee]

Ford, a month or two back showed us in MTC
A video of its new modular much lower piece count build tech for EV’s.

Does anyone remember that video ?

Did they scrap that ?

China,
$22,000 EV’s with range, features and safety ?

Ford !
We went to the moon in 1969 !
Wake the $&@? Up and, Get~er~done !

 

[MaverickDragon]

Very interesting analysis....
It is an hour long video that most won’t watch...

But I did.
It was very interesting indeed,
Thanks for the post.

 

[Propane Burning Man]

EV's still come with a lot of hype, BS, and lies, and the BIG PROBLEM: bad image.

They are connected to Cher, Taylor Swift, Joe Biden, Gavin Newson, Jimmy Kimmel, Elon Musk, Springsteen, John Meloncamp, (not Cougar, he was cool) California, Hollywood, vegans, yoga, tree huggers, and PETA.

In other words, far left wierdos. Too many people want nothing to do with EV's for that reason only. One of the first things I did was remove my hybrid badge because I live in an area with lots of far right weirdos. I would rather go incognito than run into some jack ass righty thats had a few too many at the local watering hole.

Right now there are no EV's for the masses. Name one if there is. Only the high priced luxury EV's for the high end market. So at this time they are a niche. 7% of the market. 135 years to get to this point. ICE isnt going away anytime. EV owners are going back to gas. No one is going back to kodak film.

 

[Prickly Pear]

" Right now there are no EV's for the masses. Name one if there is. "

We just picked up a 2027 Chevy Bolt - ~260+ miles of range, fast charging, the cheapest EV available in America, and union made in Kansas. By no means perfect and Chevy has said it will be a limited run. Also, as one of my bosses used to say, "The masses are asses"!

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

China has EV's that charge 500 miles in 5 minutes.

And they charge at -30°C in 12 minutes.

Wow.

They advertise world's first EV that recharges faster than pumping gas.

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