Ecoboost or Hybrid?

[710-oil-614]

If you believe the hybrid has fewer parts than EB there is no sense going on with this discussion.

I disagree with much of your reply but if you can access clean data that verifies your stance, I'll change my opinion. However, I'm pretty sure it doesn't even exist, rendering your opinion just that, with the exception of moving parts in an eCVT. but even there I suspect more lines of code.

To be clear you understand that the term “eCVT” is all encompassing of both electric motors and planetary gearset that encompass the hybrid side of the powertrain - sans the HV battery.

Compared to the 8F35 the HF55 (eCVT) has roughly 50% less moving parts.

So you are now arguing that a 2.5L Atkinson cycle naturally aspirated engine (which does not add complexity to the engine) is more complex than a forced induction engine - which is hilariously laughable.

You can subjectively argue the EB drivetrain is “better” or more reliable but it no objective terms can you claim it has less moving parts or less complex than the hybrid drivetrain.

We can certainly agree on one thing, and that is no need to continue the conversation when you are so poorly informed.

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[bgn]

EcoBoost owner for 3 years.

I'd only go hybrid AWD for 2025 and hope the aftermarket releases underbody protection. Better mileage, less complexity on the engine/transmission, no GPF. With the increase in MSRP, you might as well also get quite a bit of gas savings for the life of the vehicle.

 

[James K]

To be clear you understand that the term “eCVT” is all encompassing of both electric motors and planetary gearset that encompass the hybrid side of the powertrain - sans the HV battery.

Compared to the 8F35 the HF55 (eCVT) has roughly 50% less moving parts.

So you are now arguing that a 2.5L Atkinson cycle naturally aspirated engine (which does not add complexity to the engine) is more complex than a forced induction engine - which is hilariously laughable.

You can subjectively argue the EB drivetrain is “better” or more reliable but it no objective terms can you claim it has less moving parts or less complex than the hybrid drivetrain.

We can certainly agree on one thing, and that is no need to continue the conversation when you are so poorly informed.

Didn't know I was dealing with a mechanical and statistical expert. You're playing checkers on a chess board.

 

[710-oil-614]

Didn't know I was dealing with a mechanical and statistical expert. You're playing checkers on a chess board.

My apologies if I came off too strong.

Working OT lately to counter misinformation on these boards that gets taken as fact.

 

[Phimosis]

Here’s the rub: you want the power delivery of the ecoboost, but you want the mpg of the hybrid. If one was better at both, there would be no debate over it. At 3,000 rpm, the ecoboost is making 277 lb/ft and 158 hp. If you’re pulling a trailer over a mountain pass, the ecoboost will be purring at 3,000 rpm after 2 downshifts, while the hybrid will need to be spinning 5,500 rpm to make that much power. And the 1.1 kWh battery only gets discharged to 50% before it stops sending electrons to the motor, which means you only get the hybrid boost for 1-2 minutes, before you have to start listening to the 2.5 liter begging for mercy.

I bought a ‘24 ecoboost fx4 with 4K towing. I love the power delivery. It’s not a hot-rod, but it is more than capable of getting you in trouble with the law without ever revving it over 3,000 rpm.

if I was buying in 2025, instead of 2024, I would most likely have went with the hybrid and the 4K towing package, knowing that it was a flawed tow vehicle 10 days out of the year, but it was going to be saving me a boatload on gasoline the other 355 days a year.

 

[710-oil-614]

Here’s the rub: you want the power delivery of the ecoboost, but you want the mpg of the hybrid. If one was better at both, there would be no debate over it. At 3,000 rpm, the ecoboost is making 277 lb/ft and 158 hp. If you’re pulling a trailer over a mountain pass, the ecoboost will be purring at 3,000 rpm after 2 downshifts, while the hybrid will need to be spinning 5,500 rpm to make that much power. And the 1.1 kWh battery only gets discharged to 50% before it stops sending electrons to the motor, which means you only get the hybrid boost for 1-2 minutes, before you have to start listening to the 2.5 liter begging for mercy.

I bought a ‘24 ecoboost fx4 with 4K towing. I love the power delivery. It’s not a hot-rod, but it is more than capable of getting you in trouble with the law without ever revving it over 3,000 rpm.

if I was buying in 2025, instead of 2024, I would most likely have went with the hybrid and the 4K towing package, knowing that it was a flawed tow vehicle 10 days out of the year, but it was going to be saving me a boatload on gasoline the other 355 days a year.

Unless you’re towing up grades consistently the hybrid will deliver plenty of torque - especially well before 3k rpm.
Folks saying the hybrid will need to ring out to 5500rpm for the 2.5 Atkinson don’t understand the hybrid drivetrain and fundamentally don’t understand torque and towing.

 

[Buddhabelly78]

I own a 23 XL Hybrid that I am very happy. I am considering buying another one for work and am not sure whether to get the ecoboost or Hybrid. I will be adding a topper or ladder rack and carrying ladders and some tool boxes. Is it worth the extra power and loss of MPG to get the ecoboost? Which one has the more reliable powertrain?

I have a 2023 Lariat Ecoboost AWD with the 4K tow package and that girl can give you power and mph. I put 93 in her and I avg 33.5 mpg highway. Around town it sits between 22 and 24 mpg. The tow package gives you the oversized radiator and fan. That keeps her breathing freely and staying cool. She takes the Shenandoah Mountains with ease and control. The same went with towing my buddies 3 person wave runner. Better than expected. So I do not know how good the hybrid is on mpg and recalls, but mine had none and she sips that gasoline. Haha! I hope this was helpful.

 

[NedF]

Just read threads about recalls and problems people are having. Hybrids dominate the conversation. But hopefully ford will get a handle on that.

All Mavericks recalled in Canada 2022 - 2024 (# of units in Canada, but one can assume the ratios would be similar);

Mavericks recalled in Canada 2024 Only;

 

[710-oil-614]

I have a 2023 Lariat Ecoboost AWD with the 4K tow package and that girl can give you power and mph. I put 93 in her and I avg 33.5 mpg highway. Around town it sits between 22 and 24 mpg. The tow package gives you the oversized radiator and fan. That keeps her breathing freely and staying cool. She takes the Shenandoah Mountains with ease and control. The same went with towing my buddies 3 person wave runner. Better than expected. So I do not know how good the hybrid is on mpg and recalls, but mine had none and she sips that gasoline. Haha! I hope this was helpful.

Like you I filled my EB with premium to realize the full 277 lb ft of torque.

around me that came at anywhere to 25-33% increase over 87. So where as I’m going to get 40 MPG at $3.00/gal I was getting 26.5 MPG at $3.75/gal.

That is $0.075/mile for the AWD and $0.142/mile for the EB (tremor) on 93.

Almost twice as efficient.

 

[Phimosis]

Unless you’re towing up grades consistently the hybrid will deliver plenty of torque - especially well before 3k rpm.
Folks saying the hybrid will need to ring out to 5500rpm for the 2.5 Atkinson don’t understand the hybrid drivetrain and fundamentally don’t understand torque and towing.

I’ve owned 2 Priuses and have driven over 300k miles with the Atkinson cycle engine and 0.9 kWh battery. The Prius suffers from this exact problem at freeway speeds, in mountainous regions, without towing a trailer. That is why I brought it up. And the Maverick hybrid will have the exact same problem. You can’t cheat physics. My work commute is 130 miles and goes from Santa Clarita CA to RIdgecrest CA. My house house is at 1800 ft elevation. I drop into the valley below, at 900 ft elevation. Then I climb to the Escondido summit at 3,258 elevation, then drop back to 2,200 ft in Lancaster, then climb to 3,200 ft in Redrock canyon, then drop to 2,200 ft in RIdgecrest. Then I run the same route in reverse. Out in this rural desert landscape, it is a 70 mph zone and I usually run 80 mph, sometimes up to 84 mph. And the Prius will spend a good 10 minutes of each trip over 5,000 rpm.

Conversely, I currently own an ecoboost Maverick and have done over 2k miles of towing with it in the sierra and cascade mountain ranges. It is very easy to find the sweet spot where the 2.0 sits near max boost, between 2,700 and 3,000 rpm, churning out the same amount of hp that the hybrid Maverick can do at max rpm.

So please, do tell me about your real world experience with a hybrid drivetrain.

 

[icegradner]

I’ve owned 2 Priuses and have driven over 300k miles with the Atkinson cycle engine and 0.9 kWh battery. The Prius suffers from this exact problem at freeway speeds, in mountainous regions, without towing a trailer. That is why I brought it up. And the Maverick hybrid will have the exact same problem. You can’t cheat physics. My work commute is 130 miles and goes from Santa Clarita CA to RIdgecrest CA. My house house is at 1800 ft elevation. I drop into the valley below, at 900 ft elevation. Then I climb to the Escondido summit at 3,258 elevation, then drop back to 2,200 ft in Lancaster, then climb to 3,200 ft in Redrock canyon, then drop to 2,200 ft in RIdgecrest. Then I run the same route in reverse. Out in this rural desert landscape, it is a 70 mph zone and I usually run 80 mph, sometimes up to 84 mph. And the Prius will spend a good 10 minutes of each trip over 5,000 rpm.

Conversely, I currently own an ecoboost Maverick and have done over 2k miles of towing with it in the sierra and cascade mountain ranges. It is very easy to find the sweet spot where the 2.0 sits near max boost, between 2,700 and 3,000 rpm, churning out the same amount of hp that the hybrid Maverick can do at max rpm.

So please, do tell me about your real world experience with a hybrid drivetrain.

Not the person you are replying to, but yeah. Having owned a Camry Hybrid and the Maverick Hybrid for a combined period of 9 years, they are not great hill climbers if you care about speed, and they sound nasty while doing it. Most naturally aspirated 4 bangers have the same issue, but don't have the battery for the boost at the start.

If you care about hitting a speed target and engine noise while going through the mountains, I'm sure the EB is the better choice. That said I did see an EB Mav, that was towing a trailer, with the hood up at the top of one of the passes while traveling last spring. Since I'm usually towing a trailer and loaded up with gear, I for one do not care about hitting the speed limit, since the trailer's tires limit me to 60MPH anyway. That said, If I lived where you do, and had to do that every day/weekly, it might be a different story, since I bet the EB is more fuel efficient at that specific task.

 

[inline_five]

pure conjecture. Ya Priuses are known for their towing capabilities.

Prius towing 16,000 lbs gooseneck:

 

[inline_five]

Unless you’re towing up grades consistently the hybrid will deliver plenty of torque - especially well before 3k rpm.
Folks saying the hybrid will need to ring out to 5500rpm for the 2.5 Atkinson don’t understand the hybrid drivetrain and fundamentally don’t understand torque and towing.

Piling on to say I agree with this as well. Hybrids are great at flat, stop/go or lower constant speed driving in the 35-55 mph range.

They aren't great at passing at high speed, towing, or hill climbing. Yes they will do it, but not gracefully. They quickly lose their "guts" above 60-70 mph or going uphill.

The Maverick 4k hybrid will be great at towing the boat to the launch at 30-50 mph, putting it in and taking it out, towing a lawn care trailer, etc.

It won't be great at towing a camper up hills/mountains. It will be able to do it, but you're going to put a lot of strain/wear on that 2.5l. It's durable, but running any mechanical device at redline quickly reduces it's lifespan.

This all comes down to the right tool for the job. If you're retired and tow a 3500 lb camper around the states 180 days a year, maybe the hybrid isn't the best option. If you do it twice a year, you'll be fine especially if you take it slow.

 

[710-oil-614]

Piling on to say I agree with this as well. Hybrids are great at flat, stop/go or lower constant speed driving in the 35-55 mph range.

They aren't great at passing at high speed, towing, or hill climbing. Yes they will do it, but not gracefully. They quickly lose their "guts" above 60-70 mph or going uphill.

The Maverick 4k hybrid will be great at towing the boat to the launch at 30-50 mph, putting it in and taking it out, towing a lawn care trailer, etc.

It won't be great at towing a camper up hills/mountains. It will be able to do it, but you're going to put a lot of strain/wear on that 2.5l. It's durable, but running any mechanical device at redline quickly reduces it's lifespan.

This all comes down to the right tool for the job. If you're retired and tow a 3500 lb camper around the states 180 days a year, maybe the hybrid isn't the best option. If you do it twice a year, you'll be fine especially if you take it slow.

I generally agree with your sentiment about choosing the right tool for the job. If you’re planning to tow 4K consistently regardless of terrain the Mav may not be the vehicle for you.

I disagree that hooking up 2500-3000lbs is going to send the 2.5 to the redline.

I don’t think anyone climbing up a grade or more importantly descending one should be maintaining speeds between 70-80mph.

TFL does their torture test on Ike’s gauntlet and they go from 35mph full throttle to 60mph and then attempt to maintain 60 through the climb.

On the way back down they attempt to maintain 55mph and apply the brakes anytime they exceed 60mph.

Maintaining these speeds on climbs and descents will not be an issue for the hybrid drivetrain. Yes she’ll be howling because that’s what a 4 banger does - the ecoboost does it with 4K hooked up on Ike’s gauntlet but that is a true torture test.

Multiple times a year I plan to tow a 2600-3000lb 20ft camper from Columbus, OH to the peak of Rich Mountain (4,715 ft elevation) in Boone North Carolina. Traveling the WV Toll parkway on 77, 81 in VA, and dropping down 91 and 421 through TN and into North Carolina.

The final climb up to my property involves multiple 10-12% grades and hard packed gravel roads.

Not a worry it won’t make it or it will struggle to do it.

 

[Oscarcat]

I had a '22 Lariat EB and now have a 24 Lariat hybrid. Note that I live in a mild climate, coastal San Diego CA. Cold here is 40-45 F.

My EB was very peppy, I drive consevatively and got 31 mpg using 87 gas. I did not have any recalls etc. in the 20 months I owned the EB.

My hybrid sits at 45.9 mpg combined city/freeway using 87 octane. I have not had deep sleep issues although after sitting a few days, fewer courtesy lights etc. come one when the door is opened. I had 3 software recalls performed at once; Sync 3, tail lights and I forget #3, all done in my driveway by dealer's mobil service.

Last week I hauled 1,300 lbs of RTA, Ready-to-Assemble kitchen cabinets in my hybrid. I did not even notice the load driving on the freeway at 55-60 mph.

Fuel prices are only going up. I like seeing the DTE range show 580-600ish miles to empty when I fill it up. I spend less time at the gas pump.

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