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????
By definition, no process can have an efficiency above 100%. Are you selling perpetual motion?
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By definition, no process can have an efficiency above 100%. Are you selling perpetual motion?
Because a heat pump is not creating heat, it is simply transferring it.
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Ok, but this is "cheating." I was talking thermodynamics where you account for all energy in and out of a closed system. In your accounting, there's "free" energy from the environment.
Unless you're at the top of a mountain going downhill your whole trip, the energy captured from regenerative braking isn't wasted since it can be turned back into kinetic energy, unlike capturing thermal loss from the ICE which really is just waste.
So I still think the best case is just using the heat produced from the ICE and running the ICE continuously until its up to temp, as that's better for its health anyway. Granted you have to wait a bit for heat, but as mention the heated steering wheels and seats use way less power than trying to warm all the air in the cabin to also warm all the surfaces which also radiates out of the poorly insulated vehicle from every surface.
Lastly, consider scale, as there are 114K BTUs in just one gallon of gasoline, and you're storing 13 gallons so 1,482K BTUs. The Maverick has a miniscule 1.1kwh battery, and it never fully uses that capacity in order to preserve the life of the battery, but even if it did, that's not even 3.5K BTUs of energy so its not like you have some huge surplus so its likely getting its power from the fuel in generator mode hence the huge inefficiency of it as a system.
I'm guessing Ford just threw it in for part time use for passenger comfort so they get heat right away out of the vents like they expect without waiting since they are cheap, and the poor efficiency only when cold wouldn't affect EPA mileage rating since that's temperature controlled.
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There may be some confusion because the post you responded to was about the efficiency of a heat pump. The point was that, for the same amount of electrical energy expended, you get 2 or 3 times as much heat into the car with a heat pump as with a resistance heater.
That's because there actually is "free" energy in the environment. Namely, the ambient heat in the air surrounding the car. A heat pump primarily transfers that heat into the car, and does so very efficiently.
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A couple problems here...
- the Gen 3 HF35 C-Max is a 2.0L. Prior generations and the 2020 Escape Hybrid are 2.5L.
- Your PLUG-IN C-Max had an electric cabin heater. It's not in any hybrid.
All cabin heat in my HF45 Escape comes from the ICE. The 2.5L Atkinson has a 5.5qt. cooling system. The EcoBoost uses 9.9 qts. Which one heats up faster?
No, just the normal definition of efficiency, heat transfer per watt hour. Heat pumps are far more efficient than resistive heaters in the real world. There's a lot to be gained by using the other guy's energy.
Something like this? Not sure what your point is.....
The HVB is not a power source, it's a buffer to store energy, same as climbing a hill. The GAS TANK is the power source, the rest of it just conserves that energy once the fuel's burned.
I already made my point, you cut it out of your quotation. The scale of how much energy can be captured by regenerative braking is very small, especially since its also used for locomotion, so the system is likely operating in generator mode most or all of the time to produce that heat. So as a system, you have to look at all the previously mentioned inefficiencies of turning gasoline into heat from the electric heater. So the claim that its 100% efficient is hugely misleading because it ignores the system as a whole.
Whether you think the resistive heat is good or not, the Maverick Hybrid has it. I assume like the Tacoma and my Audi, it produces heat before the engine is warmed up. Unlike the Tacoma and Audi, Ford has made the aux electric heat quite large.
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I live in Vegas, and know I will use it.I live in Houston, TX, so its unlikely I'd ever use it!
Y'all should be just as average hot as we are! If you garage your car, especially an attached garage, because you're parking the vehicle when its hot and closing the garage door you can have quite a bit of lingering warmth in the morning compared to the outside temp even in the short winter. I generally just keep the air off and use the seat and steering wheel heat for a short while and drive off relaxed until the engine is up to temp. I imagine this will be the most efficient way to drive the hybrid as well for the two months a year it matters.
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My C-max hybrid has the heater from the gas engine cooling system, while my plug in energi has an additional electric heating element in the system. The a/c compressor in both are electric. When starting the C-max, the electric motor begins moving the car and sort of jump starts the gas engine. On the rare occasion that the hybrid battery is low, I believe the 12V battery provides enough power to start the gas engine.
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So to recap, did we collectively conclude there is an auxiliary cabin heater that turns on to give immediate cabin heat while the ICE warms up in a cold environment? Or is the jury still out?
@midcoastme How sure are you that the 12v can start the ICE under any circumstances? I think its a higher voltage AC to run the stators to move the smaller starter/generator motor to turn the crankshaft and get the ICE going? Not saying I know one way or the other but that’s the first time I’ve heard of that. Apparently it’s a relatively small battery that isn’t sized for a conventional ICE starter duty.
@midcoastme How sure are you that the 12v can start the ICE under any circumstances? I think its a higher voltage AC to run the stators to move the smaller starter/generator motor to turn the crankshaft and get the ICE going? Not saying I know one way or the other but that’s the first time I’ve heard of that. Apparently it’s a relatively small battery that isn’t sized for a conventional ICE starter duty.
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I don’t think anyone can conclusively say there is an aux heater, but there appears to be a substantial fuse for it.
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