Combined torque that Maverick hybrid will produce?

[Redbaron]

Or does 1kwh mean its only able to release 1kw over one hour? Like I said I know little to nothing about this side of things.

Precisely what 1kWh means. The battery can handle 1 kW of load for 1 hour before being depleted.
As to the other question the 1 kWh battery is very small and would not go long if it were continuously powering the vehicle by itself, maybe 2-3 miles depending on the speed and other factors. But I don’t think the maverick would have an elecric only mode because it wouldn’t make sense. I assume it would be an assist for when the vehicle needs to accelerate so the gas engine doesn’t need to get hit as hard.
The Chevy Volt, a plug in hybrid, has an 18.5 kWh battery and is able to do a max of 53 Miles with just the battery (electric only mode) and it is a lighter more aero vehicle.

I am not an hybrid automotive engineer and do not know the specs of the electrical system of this vehicle.

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[JASmith]

Sounds like the SC has a beautiful torque curve. Too bad it’s $15k more than a hybrid Maverick and $10k more than an XL ecoboost with awd.

You're telling me! What's great about Ford is a la carte ordering. You want a XL AWD with nothing but Ecoboost and 4K tow package? No problemo!

By contrast, the way that Hyundai is packaging the vehicles would be like if you wanted a Ecoboost you have to get a Lariat Luxury Package with retracting Tonneau Cover and Sunroof, ballooning the price. In Canada however where they only offer the AWD turbo powertrain, they do allow a very basic equipment trim which adjusted to US currency was like $31K USD, but not in the US where the cheapest is $37K ala SEL Premium.

Bit moot for me anyway though, as I think I'm at the point in my life where I'm not really racing about, and I'd much prefer to just relax and enjoy 37mpg combined, while having enough oomph to know I can zip out on the 55mph traffic feeder from a stop without having to have two miles of gap in cars or them slamming on their brakes and honking at me.

I think the Mav hybrid will be sufficient, and certainly a better option than the SE/SEL 2.5 NA from the Santa Cruz that has no more power really and yet only 23mpg combined fuel economy. https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/escape-hybrid/

In MotorTrend testing, an AWD Escape Hybrid accelerated from 0-60 mph in 8.7 seconds.

The AWD Escape hybrid and FWD Maverick Hybrid both weigh about the same, 3,706lbs (Escape) vs 3,674lbs (Mav), so should be pretty spot on I think.

 

[WesM]

Precisely what 1kWh means. The battery can handle 1 kW of load for 1 hour before being depleted.
As to the other question the 1 kWh battery is very small and would not go long if it were continuously powering the vehicle by itself, maybe 2-3 miles depending on the speed and other factors. But I don’t think the maverick would have an elecric only mode because it wouldn’t make sense. I assume would be an assist for the initial accel so the gas engine can get to an efficient rpm before turning on.
The Chevy Volt, a plug in hybrid, has an 18.5 kWh battery and is able to do a max of 53 Miles with just the battery (electric only mode) and it is a lighter more aero vehicle.

I am not an hybrid automotive engineer and do not know the specs of the electrical system of this vehicle.

Lets say the volt gets 1 hour of run time at 53mph on a charge. So if the chevy volt has a 111kw motor and a 18.5KWh battery, how is it able to get 53 miles of range? is the motor using closer to 18.5kw most of the time, maybe a little more if add in some regenerative braking?

 

[Rkbrumbelow]

Lets say the volt gets 1 hour of run time at 53mph on a charge. So if the chevy volt has a 111kw motor and a 18.5KWh battery, how is it able to get 53 miles of range? is the motor using closer to 18.5kw most of the time, maybe a little more if add in some regenerative braking?

You neglect things like inertia. Remember an object in motion tends to stay in motion. Asimov had 3 laws of robotics (later 4), Newton has 3 laws of classical mechanics.

mince you accelerate, you simply need to provide enough energy to overcome rolling and wind resistance. Momentum is someone regenerated to potential energy when braking.

there are a lot of other things going on. People are trying to compute it back of napkin and are using AUC not the first derivative which is what needs to be used.

do you guys think Voyager is out there still thrusting along to keep moving too?

I am not even going to bother fixing autocorrect. Mincing? Gah Someone? Come on that doesn’t make since idiot keyboard gah since? I said sense and meant it.

 

[Redbaron]

Lets say the volt gets 1 hour of run time at 53mph on a charge. So if the chevy volt has a 111kw motor and a 18.5KWh battery, how is it able to get 53 miles of range? is the motor using closer to 18.5kw most of the time, maybe a little more if add in some regenerative braking?

The 111 kw is the theoretical maximum that the motor can handle without breaking. It doesn’t mean it takes that much power to move the vehicle. The range is also assuming slow paced driving.

 

[JASmith]

The 111 kw is the theoretical maximum that the motor can handle without breaking. It doesn’t mean it takes that much power to move the vehicle. The range is also assuming slow paced driving.

Reminds me of Chinese flashlights. They advertise the theoretical lumens that the diode can output before 'sploding in your face, rather than what the flashlight actually outputs with the spread lens, heat capacity, and battery they have equipped with it which of course is much lower.

 

[sseiler]

Ford's really skimped on technical information on the HF45. We can assume The HF45+ will have no less power than the motor on the HF35, for which I found these ratings:
118 hp@6,000 RPM/88kW@6,000
Torque 177 lb.-ft./240Nm

The combined rating is problematic for several reasons. ICE RPM can vary independent of speed, so its contribution tends to be constant. Electric motors like these are current-limited for torque at low RPM, displaying a flat curve at maximum torque up the point where current draw (and torque) starts to fall.

However, the 35kW regen limit implies a limit on HVB power through the inverter, so getting the most out of the traction motor likely involves the ICE pushing the charging motor, too, leaving less ICE torque available for the road. Lots of variables in this control system!!!

Dang, bro, you clearly know your !

I could probably use a version on my level… So, truck have good vroom vroom or no good vroom vroom?

 

[es7129]

Precisely what 1kWh means. The battery can handle 1 kW of load for 1 hour before being depleted.
As to the other question the 1 kWh battery is very small and would not go long if it were continuously powering the vehicle by itself, maybe 2-3 miles depending on the speed and other factors. But I don’t think the maverick would have an elecric only mode because it wouldn’t make sense. I assume it would be an assist for when the vehicle needs to accelerate so the gas engine doesn’t need to get hit as hard.
The Chevy Volt, a plug in hybrid, has an 18.5 kWh battery and is able to do a max of 53 Miles with just the battery (electric only mode) and it is a lighter more aero vehicle.

I am not an hybrid automotive engineer and do not know the specs of the electrical system of this vehicle.

This has been my experience with our Tucson Blue. We can sail for about 2-3 with light acceleration and maintain EV mode before it’ll kick the gas engine on to charge the battery. I’ve been able to achieve 50mpg over a 15mile trip on backroads maintaining 40-50mph.
I don’t hypermile with other drivers behind me so this is the only road I’m able to get fuel efficiency close to that. Otherwise it’s 38-42.

 

[WesM]

You neglect things like inertia. Remember an object in motion tends to stay in motion. Asimov had 3 laws of robotics (later 4), Newton has 3 laws of classical mechanics.

mince you accelerate, you simply need to provide enough energy to overcome rolling and wind resistance. Momentum is someone regenerated to potential energy when braking.

there are a lot of other things going on. People are trying to compute it back of napkin and are using AUC not the first derivative which is what needs to be used.

do you guys think Voyager is out there still thrusting along to keep moving too?

I am not even going to bother fixing autocorrect. Mincing? Gah Someone? Come on that doesn’t make since idiot keyboard gah since? I said sense and meant it.

Hah no worries on the Autocorrect (autoincorrect I call it). I do understand that I would not be using the max power of the motor, I'm not redlining my ICE engine all the time after all. Just surprised how little of the electric motor is actually used most of the time.

Reminds me of Chinese flashlights. They advertise the theoretical lumens that the diode can output before 'sploding in your face, rather than what the flashlight actually outputs with the spread lens, heat capacity, and battery they have equipped with it which of course is much lower.

Kinda makes me think of the universal vs induction motor thing in table saws. Universal motors have crazy high HP ratings, scream like a banshee and feel underpowered, while the induction motors tend to have lower HP ratings, have a lot of toque and quiet. Its like the shopvacs that say they have 5hp... yea right.

I have a 45 HP motor on the spindle of my CNC Millturn, its 4 times the size of the one in the HF45 eCVT.

 

[JASmith]

I could probably use a version on my level… So, truck have good vroom vroom or no good vroom vroom?

Hybrid has only vroom. Gronk want ecoboost for vroom vroom.

 

[vap0rtranz]

I don’t know where you are getting this from. 1kWh is the “contained energy”, also equivalent to 3600 kJ.
Watts is a measure of power which is energy over time.
joules is a measure of energy. If the battery is 1 kWh it would be 3600 kJ of energy contained… (3600s (1hr) x 1 kW)

I donated all my physics book but I never liked this oversimplification of Watts as energy over time.

Watt is a unit of power. Watt-hour is rate of power.

Power is work over time. Power is not energy over time.

The equation I had for exams was very simply: dP=dW/dt, as a derivative. The equation for work I had was: W=Fvdt, in its integral form. So, if we want just power (in Watts), you could do simple substitution: P = Fv. And there's no unit of time. The unit "wh" adds the time unit back.

But energy?! What an oddball. I remember we had debates in class about what the heck it was. For battery, I'd guess electric potential energy and the UE equations. UE is imply work done. Again, work not power. (To mess with energy, we'd have to throw in the q charges and r and another integral.)

Wh is a unit rate of power, and not energy but work done by potential energy. Yes it's convenient to think of it as just energy but the equations aren't void of other variables.

Lets say the volt gets 1 hour of run time at 53mph on a charge. So if the chevy volt has a 111kw motor and a 18.5KWh battery, how is it able to get 53 miles of range? is the motor using closer to 18.5kw most of the time, maybe a little more if add in some regenerative braking?

I drive a Volt and will have to look up what GM actually advertised.

 

[Rkbrumbelow]

Hah no worries on the Autocorrect (autoincorrect I call it). I do understand that I would not be using the max power of the motor, I'm not redlining my ICE engine all the time after all. Just surprised how little of the electric motor is actually used most of the time.



Kinda makes me think of the universal vs induction motor thing in table saws. Universal motors have crazy high HP ratings, scream like a banshee and feel underpowered, while the induction motors tend to have lower HP ratings, have a lot of toque and quiet. Its like the shopvacs that say they have 5hp... yea right.

Maybe the horses are just really small… it’s like torque being measured in lb ft I know it feels like my foot was pounded if I drop a sufficiently large torque wrench on my foot.
Seriously though, some people get it, others don’t. Energy in must equal energy out in a closed system. Nothing is 100 % efficient except heaters. But that means you accelerate at some force for some time to reach a velocity (after all A=dV/dT) but once you get there, it’s just Rolling Resistance plus Reynolds number x velocity^2 to maintain it (haha just …) so x T.

 

[Redbaron]

Wh is a unit rate of power, and not energy but work done by potential energy. Yes it's convenient to think of it as just energy but the equations aren't void of other variables.

I disagree with this, But I mean this is just nit picky stuff . When talking in the contexts of battery capacity, Wh is generally associated with the total electrical energy that battery can hold. Not how much work it has done.

After all the battery doesn’t have to do work, it can just store the energy. But rather the battery has the ability to do work. Sounds a lot like energy don’t you think?
But this is small things here we are arguing.

 

[Rkbrumbelow]

I disagree with this, But I mean this is just nit picky stuff . When talking in the contexts of battery capacity, Wh is generally associated with the total electrical energy that battery can hold. Not how much work it has done.

After all the battery doesn’t have to do work, it can just store the energy. But rather the battery has the ability to do work. Sounds a lot like energy don’t you think?
But this is small things here we are arguing.

You all make my brain hurt, but instead of trying to show you the equations or explain anything I am just going to say go here: Khan Acadamy

 

[flyjum]

Peak torque is a useless measurement in terms of engine performance. If torque is what "wins races" or allows a vehicle to tow better than my impact would be one of the best engines ever made.

Sustained wheel torque overtime is what matters. This is also called horsepower which is essentially a torque measurement with a time value. Horsepower equals torque times RPM divided by 5252 always. The time figure in the measurement comes from the rotations per minute part of the equation. You can always change how much final torque at the wheels you have via changes in driveline gearing.

In regards to the maverick hybrid drive system you have an electric motor that provides a reasonable amount of power. But both the electric motor and the gas motor are both single speed gear ratios. The electric motor provides most of the power required up to around 35 or so MPH. At that point the gas motor is at a high enough RPM to provide a meaningful amount of torque. Think of it like the electric motor covers power needed for 1st 2nd and 3rd gear and the gas covers 4th and 5th gear. This is an analogy to a traditional 5 speed style transmission.

Here is a video of a Toyota system. Its basically the same just the electric motors on newer hybrid systems like the Ford and newer toyota are not in line but rather in parallel

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