Changing to AGM

[MakinDoForNow]

Some acronyms/abbreviations listed spread thruout Ford manuals.
Livnitup's forscan spreadsheet has some listed:
https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/2021-f-150-forscan-list-database-spreadsheet.1578/

Charging System - 2.5L Duratec – Hybrid (121kW/164PS) (S3) - System Operation and Component Description

12V Battery Charging System

The 12V battery is charged by the DC / DC converter control module.
The BMS continuously monitors the battery state of charge condition and provides the BCM with this information.

Battery Charging System Component Description:

BMS - Battery Monitoring Sensor-
The battery monitoring sensor measures voltage, current and temperature of the battery and uses these inputs to calculate the battery condition, transmitting this information through the LIN circuit to the BCM

BCM - Body Control Module-
The BCM communicates on the HS-CAN1, determines the ignition state, communicates the power mode state and measures the 12-volt battery voltage with the battery sensor.

PCM - Powertrain Control Module-
The PCM communicates on the HS-CAN1 and determines the ambient air temperature, enables and sets the low voltage charging setpoint, determines power pack status and transaxle gear state.

DCDC - DC/DC Converter-
The DCDC is responsible for maintaining and charging the 12-volt battery, it communicates on the HS-CAN1.

Has anyone found or checked the 12v battery temp being reported by the BMS to the BCM. Someone installing a diy LiFePO4 replacement reported a fairly warm ambient temp in the hybrid 12v battery area under the seat. He questioned the nearness of exhaust to the battery bin. Perhaps someone with the battery needs to try raising the rear seat and install a fan to see if that would help the SOC. I doubt it would, but? With the SOC starting at 50-65% just charging at max could heat battery too much and maybe BCM is waiting for BMS to report cooler battery???

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[Nootch]

there is a very good chance that the charging system is trying to use a standard SLA or AGM charging profile and the profile for a LiFePO4 is different. the extra heat could be caused from the battery converting charge voltage to heat, which is common when over supplying a charged battery with voltage and amperage.

this may help to explain.

https://www.redwaybattery.com/how-to-safely-charge-a-lifepo4-battery-with-an-alternator/

keep in mind BMS in this article refers to Battery MANAGEMENT System where Ford uses Battery MONITORING system.

 

[BlueSpec1]

Has anyone found or checked the 12v battery temp being reported by the BMS to the BCM. Someone installing a diy LiFePO4 replacement reported a fairly warm ambient temp in the hybrid 12v battery area under the seat. He questioned the nearness of exhaust to the battery bin. Perhaps someone with the battery needs to try raising the rear seat and install a fan to see if that would help the SOC. I doubt it would, but? With the SOC starting at 50-65% just charging at max could heat battery too much and maybe BCM is waiting for BMS to report cooler battery???

I haven't. I was looking thru various modules the other day with Forscan Lite for PIDs I could monitor and only found temperatures for the Hybrid HVB pack, DC/DC Converter.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I haven't. I was looking thru various modules the other day with Forscan Lite for PIDs I could monitor and only found temperatures for the Hybrid HVB pack, DC/DC Converter.

Maybe I'll order a Bluetooth thermometer I can see on my phone. It is prime discount sale today and tomorrow! (10/8/24-10/9/24). I haven't had either of mine fail to start but when I see 12.0 or less on my dash power point monitor in accessory in am will put my Noco g5 for 4-7 days so it can optimize sulfate & destratify. Happens about every other month. My XLT I try to drive 20-30 miles once every 7-10 days. I am in central Texas and park in 40°F garage so not much cold weather below 32°F but I do wonder how the BCM/BMS handles freezing temps on 12v.

 

[Bear]

I did forget to mention I did charge up my battery with my NOCO genius charger until it was fully charged and the deep sleep message came back a week later. I will most likely swap out the battery with a AGM down the road and Thanks for directions for the BMS procedure.

@JimInWI
@Bear

I charged the new AGM battery to full on the workbench, and then installed it into the truck.

Then I reset the BMS:

1. Turn key on (or push start button) WITHOUT your foot holding down the brake. So you're in ACC mode.
2. Flash high beam headlights 5 times. (Usually pull back on signal light lever)
3. Hit brakes 3 times
4. Watch for battery light to start flashing

This tell the truck that a new battery is installed, and starts a new day counter for said battery so you (in Forscan) or a Ford Service Tech can see how old your battery is sometime down the road.

@Bear mentioned parking the truck for three weeks. Do note that it is normal for the truck at some time to go into Deep Sleep (once!) when you put it away for longer periods, as that's exactly what the feature is for.

Not normal were the seemingly random and frequent deep sleeps I got with the stock FLA battery, sometimes right after driving it for 40 miles. The new AGM battery fixed all that.

No Forscan tweaks are needed in my opinion. I have not seen any performance difference with or without changes to the battery charge level. Either way the system works fine with the new AGM battery.

Don't overthink all this: just put an AGM battery in there and forget about it!

Cheers!

 

[BlueSpec1]

Maybe I'll order a Bluetooth thermometer I can see on my phone. It is prime discount sale today and tomorrow! (10/8/24-10/9/24). I haven't had either of mine fail to start but when I see 12.0 or less on my dash power point monitor in accessory in am will put my Noco g5 for 4-7 days so it can optimize sulfate & destratify. Happens about every other month. My XLT I try to drive 20-30 miles once every 7-10 days. I am in central Texas and park in 40°F garage so not much cold weather below 32°F but I do wonder how the BCM/BMS handles freezing temps on 12v.

It appeared that cooler weather affected the battery SOC and how many amps it would accept.
I had a couple of Forscan Lite Live from Jan and Feb with mid 50°s for highs:

Jan 19, 2024 @1221 - Mid 50°s

Feb 18, 2024 @1251 - Mid 50°s

March 12, 2024 - Mid 70°s

March 12, 2024 - Mid 70°s

 

[mav47]

Can't wait to try this. Thanks for the feedback. This is a weird question, but does it really matter that order you get the BMS recall done and a new battery out in? I know, dumb question, but I'm curious.

Like is it better to do the recall, then get a new battery, or battery and then recall? Or does it not make a difference?

@OneAlienBoi

I don't think the order of things really matters here.

Cheers!

 

[HeyBales]

I too have been getting frequent deep sleep alerts on FordPass and plan to swap to the H4 AGM but I have never had an issue with starting the truck. After the last two alerts I checked voltage at the battery and it showed 12.4v each time. My truck has never sat more than 4-5 days without use and Ford states the deep sleep should only occur after 14 consecutive days of non use, battery at or below 9.5 volts or BCM 12v battery SOC drops below 50%. I recently saw a service campaign listed that mentions false deep sleep alerts on various Fords including the Maverick.
Mine was recently at the dealer for routine maintenance and the wiper recall so asked them to investigate the deep sleep issue and after updating modules and fully charging the battery to test it they gave it a clean bill of health. Unfortunately after they returned it to me I got the dreaded alert a half hour later!
Apparently nobody at Ford has a clue or isn’t communicating with dealerships on how to cure the problem leaving it up to us to do it.

Oh interesting - 1st time I've seen the Sync3 systems being a factor in bogus notices.
Good to see they know there is an update to TCU possibly as reason.

 

[JimInWI]

For folks following this thread and looking for an H4 AGM, Amazon has one that has been recommended here on sale during Prime Days:

UPLUS BCI Group 140R Car Battery, AGM-L50-UP Maintenance Free 12V 50Ah Premium AGM Batteries H4 LN1 Automotive Battery, 570CCA, 120RC https://a.co/d/15aWkhK

Also, if your interested in a high end, fast, battery charger and maintainer, this one is on sale for less than what the Genius 5 normally costs:

Limited-time deal for Prime Members: NOCO GENIUS10, 10A Smart Car Battery Charger, 6V and 12V Automotive Charger, Battery Maintainer, Trickle Charger, Float Charger and Desulfator for Motorcycle, ATV, Lithium and Deep Cycle Batteries https://a.co/d/fnY4OZd

I dropped the cash for both today.

 

[HeyBales]

Can't wait to try this. Thanks for the feedback. This is a weird question, but does it really matter that order you get the BMS recall done and a new battery out in? I know, dumb question, but I'm curious.

Like is it better to do the recall, then get a new battery, or battery and then recall? Or does it not make a difference?

Do you mean recall, or reset, from the instructions you asked about?
I think you mean reset since the aspect of getting a recall done was a different post.

From manual - install battery, then BMS reset, then rest overnight to learn. (and dream)

If you reset and old battery is attached - it just got some measurements that will be bad for the new battery about to go in, and reported them to the BCM that is going to make decisions.
Maybe that gets corrected overnight, maybe not.

 

[HeyBales]

Has anyone found or checked the 12v battery temp being reported by the BMS to the BCM. Someone installing a diy LiFePO4 replacement reported a fairly warm ambient temp in the hybrid 12v battery area under the seat. He questioned the nearness of exhaust to the battery bin. Perhaps someone with the battery needs to try raising the rear seat and install a fan to see if that would help the SOC. I doubt it would, but? With the SOC starting at 50-65% just charging at max could heat battery too much and maybe BCM is waiting for BMS to report cooler battery???

The way the BMS is hanging out over the open edge of the battery - not so sure it's getting a battery temp. Or anywhere near accurate if it has one.
Unlike some of the add on monitors that attach right to battery with tape.

Sure would be smart for temp be part of the equation on charging rate, since that is so controllable with the DC-DC method.

Then again - how in the world did all the years of ICE cars make it thru summer & winter charging just fine usually.

 

[HeyBales]

there is a very good chance that the charging system is trying to use a standard SLA or AGM charging profile and the profile for a LiFePO4 is different. the extra heat could be caused from the battery converting charge voltage to heat, which is common when over supplying a charged battery with voltage and amperage.

this may help to explain.

https://www.redwaybattery.com/how-to-safely-charge-a-lifepo4-battery-with-an-alternator/

keep in mind BMS in this article refers to Battery MANAGEMENT System where Ford uses Battery MONITORING system.

The BCM contains the management aspect - fed data from the BMS.

Good article since the smallish T4 battery size has some lithium options.

 

[mspmms]

Any Group 140R drops right into the Hybrid (under the back seat). Make sure you buy an AGM though. That Uplus Group 140R AGM I also linked earlier turns out to be a fine battery and is likely the cheapest drop-in replacement you can find.

Cheers!

And now on sale!

I have had a few "Deep Sleep" messages, but I was never unable to start my truck. I have been keeping a jump pack in the truck just in case.

At this price it was it too good to pass up.

- I will just store it until the time comes that it is needed (not if but when the original Maverick battery becomes a problem).

 

[Nootch]

The BCM contains the management aspect - fed data from the BMS.

Good article since the smallish T4 battery size has some lithium options.

Ahh, thank you for the clarification. I haven't dug deep enough into the weeds yet to get to that point. Appreciated.

 

[JimInWI]

And now on sale!

I have had a few "Deep Sleep" messages, but I was never unable to start my truck. I have been keeping a jump pack in the truck just in case.

At this price it was it too good to pass up.

- I will just store it until the time comes that it is needed (not if but when the original Maverick battery becomes a problem).

Bought it today and posted the link earlier too. Planning on doing the same as you are. Have zero confidence in the OEM battery to last a Wisconsin winter.

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