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Optimus

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The way I see the math (on any vehicle I purchase), while also using a similar 2-year timeline to “earn back” $1500, is savings per month. Using the same $1500 and 2 year timeline, 1500/24=$62.50 a month I save by picking the hybrid assuming my mileage by year is consistent and fuel prices are similar. $62.50 per month pays for a lot of other stuff.

I’ve had a spreadsheet saved for about 15 years now that breaks down annual fuel costs per year, per every mpg value from 10mpg to 60mpg, to “see” what I might be getting into and/or having to compromise with a new vehicle. I can change the fuel price or annual miles driven and update the sheet accordingly. What I’ve learned over the years is that above 40mpg for me and my situation doesn’t really matter anymore because the savings (or loss) become so insignificant. Going from something that gets 10mpg to something that gets 15mpg is massive. But using that same 5mpg as a difference going from 40mpg to 45mpg is tiny in comparison. For me, the mpg difference between ecoboost vs. hybrid is clear enough to stay hybrid.

However…..while I did order the anemic 2k hybrid tow package, I already own another truck that can tow significantly more when needed. The Mav will be replacing an older Prius that gets slightly better fuel economy, but 1) it’s older, 2), can’t tow a paper bag, 3) has no pickup bed at all. We love the Prius, but we’ll sacrifice a few mpg to get some towing, a small truck bed, and oh BTW a brand new vehicle. Had I not already owned another pickup (with much higher tow rating), I would likely have taken a bit of a closer look at the ecoboost. Unfortunately, 4k is still not even close to what I’d need to replace the other truck.
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BradnChristine

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AC draws way too much electricity to run off a 12V battery. Hybrids are able to run off their HVB but EBs use a conventional system. What it can do is to run the ICE and the compressor for a bit, then shut off the compressor and blow the pre-chilled air out before starting the ICE back up.

One thing to keep in mind about engine start/stop (non-hybrid) is that it does not last very long, and many factors will keep it from activating. It doesn't activate every time you stop, it will only stay off as long as the 12V battery stays within the target charge range, and it'll kick back on as soon as it decides it's needed.

If the cooling or heating demand is too high, the engine will never shut off. On a hybrid, it'll cycle the engine on and off just to charge the HVB while the compressor is powered full time. Means you never notice much change in the temp of the air coming out of the vents.

If you try to turn the steering wheel, the engine will fire back up because even though it has a similar EPAS (Electric Power Assisted Steering) system, it relies on the ICE. Didn't quite straighten the wheels before stopping in a turn lane? On a hybrid, EPAS runs off the HVB, thus you can steer to your heart's content with the engine off.

Need to move up a bit while waiting at a red light? Now the engine's gonna fire up and stay on for the next couple minutes. Meaning it'll probably shut off right before the light goes green.

If keeping the engine off to maximize efficiency appeals to you, hybrid is the way to go because babysitting engine start/stop can get annoying. ;)



My brother was picking up his new-to-him Escape Hybrid from a dealer. He turned it on and was trying to link it to his FordPass account. Salesman comes over to help and tells him to turn it on. Had to remind him it was a hybrid and was already on, because they are quiet with the engine off.
Thanks for your usual well-constructed and informational answer! I always appreciate your good info!
 

BradnChristine

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...

However…..while I did order the anemic 2k hybrid tow package, I already own another truck that can tow significantly more when needed. ...
I had my 2003 S-10 quadcab for exactly 20 years before trading it in on my Maverick. 5,000 lb (maybe 5500?) towing capacity, but I used it exactly once to tow a trailer 20 miles and once to move a boat about 200 miles. I realized I needed a pickup bed far more than I needed another towing vehicle.

Yes, the Hybrid is a compromise that is wonderful for some, but lacking for others.
 

AncientMan

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You don't use the brakes to stop?
Wow
In heavy traffic I use the brakes a little bit, but when there’s nobody behind me I let the regen feature slow me to around 5mph then brake. Even when driving “normally” I find myself using the brakes substantially less than in my previous EB maverick.
 

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TheQuixotic1

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But isn’t the Hybrid an up charge for 24?🧐*********
You are correct,we have a C-Max in the family that has over 100,000 on its original brakes. And they look very, very good.
I believe that upcharge is what they were calculating.

I just sold my 2013 C-Max on Tuesday. 149,820 miles and I replaced the factory brakes at ~140,000 miles; the brakes could have gotten another year/10k miles but I didn't want the bad karma of handing off a vehicle that would need immediate maintenance. Stiction and excessive rust seem to be the biggest issues for hybrid/ev brake pads as opposed to actual wear over time.
 
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TheQuixotic1

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I got spoiled with my first C-Max Hybrid back in 2016. When I first test-drove one, the salesman and I were sitting in the car talking, with it "on" and it surprised me when the engine started up....by then I was sold on the technology, buying a used 2013 and then a new 2017 and now am loving my Maverick.
The two "faults" of the C-Max are fixed: The Maverick has a real spare tire...and a pickup bed!
Just sold my 2013 C-Max on Tuesday. Ordered her custom in 2012 and sold her at 149,820 miles. Parting was definitely emotional having that car treat me so well for 11 years (and vice versa). If my wife and I didn't have plans for a camper in the future, I 100% would have been all over a hybrid Maverick because of my experience with my C-Max.
 

AutobahnSHO

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The battery pack in the Mav hybrid is pretty small- won't cost a ton to replace later on. And maybe in 8-10 years the technology will be better so you could get more "power" from the same truck!

Imagine the computer letting you cruise on battery 2x as long..... !!! (I'm hoping)
 

Timothyd

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Clubs
 
I thought it would be fun to build a calculator to determine how many miles you need to drive to justify the $1500 hybrid premium.

Number of Miles = (($1500/ Avg_$/Gallon) * Hybrid_MPG) / ((Hybrid_MPG / Ecoboost_MPG) - 1)

If I use the Car & Driver Average MPG figures:
Hybrid: 42 City & 33 Highway = 37.5 MPG
Ecoboost: 22 City & 29 Highway = 25.5 MPG

I use local gas prices average (Irvine, California, US): $4.58

Number of Miles = (($1500/$4.58)*37.5)/((37.5/25.5)-1) = 26,100 miles.

I don't know if you find this useful or not... Yet, it was fun creating the formula. ;)
Interesting. I don't live in the city but, in mixed driving (50/50?), I've been getting 46mpg. This includes sometimes a load in the bed. If I didn't do a lot of short trips it might be better
 

StarNut

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I used the link above and when you look at the Lariat edition, I come out ahead before I even drive the truck off the lot. Since the Lariat comes standard with AWD package for the 2.0L it costs $720 more than hybrid. Now will I ever see it made? That's the bigger question.
 
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Guv

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Just sold my 2013 C-Max on Tuesday. Ordered her custom in 2012 and sold her at 149,820 miles. Parting was definitely emotional having that car treat me so well for 11 years (and vice versa). If my wife and I didn't have plans for a camper in the future, I 100% would have been all over a hybrid Maverick because of my experience with my C-Max.
I felt the same way, at least our son inherited her. I’m retired now and that little car never let me down in 100,000 miles. The one time it stopped was in our driveway when the 12v battery died at 50,000. 30 minutes later she was blowing and going. She got a brand new transmission just before the hybrid warranty ran out 96,000? but was still fully drivable. I have always been a car nut, I have had a, GTO, MACH 1, SRT8 300C, Cougar XR7, Challenger R/T, a 1964 Grand Prix with 3 carbs and 4 on the floor and too many hot rod pickups to count. I still like to open up my F150 Coyote but I will think more fondly of that C-Max than any others, or at least as much 😉.
 

TheQuixotic1

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I felt the same way, at least our son inherited her. I’m retired now and that little car never let me down in 100,000 miles. The one time it stopped was in our driveway when the 12v battery died at 50,000. 30 minutes later she was blowing and going. She got a brand new transmission just before the hybrid warranty ran out 96,000? but was still fully drivable. I have always been a car nut, I have had a, GTO, MACH 1, SRT8 300C, Cougar XR7, Challenger R/T, a 1964 Grand Prix with 3 carbs and 4 on the floor and too many hot rod pickups to count. I still like to open up my F150 Coyote but I will think more fondly of that C-Max than any others, or at least as much 😉.
I was a 25 year old kid living in Las Vegas on my own and I kept telling myself that was my chance to get my Mustang or F-150 and really "live" life that way, but I still ultimately convinced myself to make the responsible and reasonable choice then. I would think about the missed chance of reckless youth from time to time while driving her, but always go back to knowing that I made the right choice with how great she was to me.

Knowing I was letting her go made me start to think of all the dates with my now-wife we went on driving her, the 20 states I drove through with her, the major life and career changes, and 6 states I lived in with her by my side through it all. I don't trust people who log 80k+ miles on a vehicle and don't have some sort of sentimental/emotional attachment to them.
 

BradnChristine

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Just sold my 2013 C-Max on Tuesday. Ordered her custom in 2012 and sold her at 149,820 miles. Parting was definitely emotional having that car treat me so well for 11 years (and vice versa). If my wife and I didn't have plans for a camper in the future, I 100% would have been all over a hybrid Maverick because of my experience with my C-Max.
Those C-Max sales were dismal where I was. Ford never really advertized them...much like the Maverick.

Ford could have sold many more C-Max to the RVing crowd, as the C-Max (flat-towable) came out just about the same time as Honda declared the CR-V as no longer flat-towable. I think 2014 was the last year for them. So many folks bit the bullet and bought a Jeep Wrangler to flat tow as there wasn't a lot of choice in easy flat-tow vehicles. Ford just never advertized the C-Max to the RVing crowd. Now that more folks are aware, It will probably will keep my 2017 C-Max value up as it is set up to be towed.
 

bearsfan647

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AncientMan

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small 30 mile trips is hardly what they were talking about lol.
They really didn’t specify did they? My average is around 54 mpg per tank, mostly because I don’t drive like an angry teenager…
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