Auto Stop/Start may be going away (per EPA)

[Snox801]

1. HF55 is more simple and robust than the 8F35 so you are wrong about complexity.

2. A Ford powerboost drivetrain combines an ecoboost engine with a hybrid transaxle. It’s truly the best of both worlds.

Some people just like smashing their balls though.

Some people do t like adding a full secondary power train that can fail.
And some just like wasting money buying an additional system of propulsion when one would do fine. Me I like to abuse my balls rather than drive a hybrid
Your probably the same guy that complains about the cost of the vehicles going up also.

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[710-oil-614]

That fact you think the hf55 is more robust is just wrong. We simply can’t know until people start regularly pulling and hauling with them the same 4K and seeing. Anything g else is just hoping and dreaming.

Nah there is plenty of data out there on the 8F35 and previous HF35 and HF45 to know they are more robust than the 8F35 which is not meant to handle power or abuse. That would go to the 8F57

 

[710-oil-614]

Won’t matter that electric part only last so long. And yes he still loses power. Until the launch a power boost your point is moot. Not to mention it will add cost.
Just compare a power boost f-150 to a 3.5 only.

Until you tow with it your opinion is just that and all conjecture based on zero real world experience with it.

 

[oysterville]

I find it impossible to debate with facts when the other party isn't similarly equipped.

But that's the environment that we find ourselves inhabiting in 2025 America. It's better to just not engage and keep what is left of my sanity.

 

[HeyBales]

The "EPA fuel mileage" that manufacturers use for highway and city is a "drive schedule" test created by the EPA on a dyno. In these specific tests, auto start-stop substantially increases fuel mileage. The big problem with this is that the EPA fuel economy tests do not indicate how many people drive; for example, the highway test averages 48 mph and does not go above 60 mph.

Real-world data suggests that real-world driving schedules do not see a massive fuel economy increase from auto start-stop technology for most Americans. Manufacturers only include it to "game" the EPA city drive schedule.. Hopefully, the EPA plans to update its driving schedules to reflect the average driver better. If these tests do not significantly benefit from auto start-stop technology, manufacturers will likely remove it as an added cost widely disliked by many consumers.

Incorrect - not for purpose of mileage.
Also, you have incorrect info on current EPA tests.

If you want to see added cost, and complexity, this!

 

[Tyler]

Incorrect - not for purpose of mileage.
Also, you have incorrect info on current EPA tests.

If you want to see added cost, and complexity, this!

You're splitting hairs here; reducing fuel usage and emissions are the same, except manufacturers have no reason to care about emissions; they care about their CAFE numbers and the fuel economy they can market to consumers.

https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/2205440 I will put more weight into this document than a random guy on YouTube wearing a mechanic's shirt. But to each their own.


https://www.epa.gov/vehicle-and-fuel-emissions-testing/dynamometer-drive-schedules
Feel free to point out where I was incorrect about the current EPA tests.

 

[L30n1d45]

That fact you think the hf55 is more robust is just wrong

Ahhh yes, the Ford 8f35 which has a stellar reputation for being robust /s

I'd wager a guess here, but the hf55 will likely out-last any 8f35 even in towing over the course of thousands of miles.

 

[SpaceCowboy]

You're splitting hairs here; reducing fuel usage and emissions are the same, except manufacturers have no reason to care about emissions; they care about their CAFE numbers and the fuel economy they can market to consumers.

https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/2205440 I will put more weight into this document than a random guy on YouTube wearing a mechanic's shirt. But to each their own.


https://www.epa.gov/vehicle-and-fuel-emissions-testing/dynamometer-drive-schedules
Feel free to point out where I was incorrect about the current EPA tests.

EPA guy here, I work at that lab and work in the group that does vehicle emissions testing. You are correct it about passing emissions while caring about CAFE numbers. Lots of little things go into these cars/trucks to conserve fuel.

The drive traces are just standard ones we have used starting in the early 70's. Standard drive traces will never mimic everyone's drive styles but it's a starting point and a bar that is set for manufactures.

I spent a lot of my time testing certain German made cars to learn a lot of the tricks and scandals with emissions and fuel economy.

 

[colinl]

EPA guy here, I work at that lab and work in the group that does vehicle emissions testing. You are correct it about passing emissions while caring about CAFE numbers. Lots of little things go into these cars/trucks to conserve fuel.

The drive traces are just standard ones we have used starting in the early 70's. Standard drive traces will never mimic everyone's drive styles but it's a starting point and a bar that is set for manufactures.

I spent a lot of my time testing certain German made cars to learn a lot of the tricks and scandals with emissions and fuel economy.

so. on the test program, are there opportunities to use stop/start such that would result in fuel savings? the engine being off for 1-2 seconds surely is not a savings.

I am especially doubtful of the highway rating portion.

 

[SpaceCowboy]

so. on the test program, are there opportunities to use stop/start such that would result in fuel savings? the engine being off for 1-2 seconds surely is not a savings.

I am especially doubtful of the highway rating portion.

On the highway test no, on the ftp (city) there is more than 1-2 seconds in multiple areas. We aren't talking 5 mpg.

 

[Meeka]

This thread will be banned.
It is political.
Place your bets ladies and gents.

I’m in!!!

 

[MetalThunder]

Fords execution is not great and the ecoboost is abrupt and rough when stopping and starting for like you said - virtually no gas savings.

It was much less intrusive and noticeable in my Civic with the 1.5L turbo 4.

Obviously YMMV -

Depending on the length of Stop - it indeed will stop a couple of . X mpgs from drop ping off the meter (which isn't totaly relevant in the scheme of MPGS as we all know) - Either way as far as abrupt ....
mine purrs like a lion - nothing abrupt about It ... but i only turn it on a known long lights ... I get it though Hybrids Good - Ecoboost Bad I love my Dino juice sucker ...


Cheers

 

[commadorebob]

He has a point. At this point, AS/S is just a way for manufacturers to get brownie points. Especially since many people turn it off all the time. We lucked out in that my wife's 2022 Explorer had it excluded at the factory due to a covid shortage (and we got a credit on the window sticker!).

The Auto Start Stop requirement was silly. We need fewer silly regulations. There are a lot better ways to mandate cleaner vehicles.

 

[HeyBales]

You're splitting hairs here; reducing fuel usage and emissions are the same, except manufacturers have no reason to care about emissions; they care about their CAFE numbers and the fuel economy they can market to consumers.

https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/2205440 I will put more weight into this document than a random guy on YouTube wearing a mechanic's shirt. But to each their own.


https://www.epa.gov/vehicle-and-fuel-emissions-testing/dynamometer-drive-schedules
Feel free to point out where I was incorrect about the current EPA tests.

Emissions and fuel usage are not the same.
As you yourself pointed out and others - there is not actually a lot of fuel savings by removing the idle - but there is for emissions.
They do indeed have regulations they care about meeting on both matters.
https://www.epa.gov/vehicle-and-fuel-emissions-testing/vehicle-testing-regulations

As far as the "EPA Fuel Mileage" you referenced - the labels changed in 2017 and were based on new testing procedures in 2008.
So for a little while now 80 mph is new top speed.
https://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/basic-information-fuel-economy-labeling
https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi/P100IENB.PDF?Dockey=P100IENB.PDF

 

[Meeka]

He has a point. At this point, AS/S is just a way for manufacturers to get brownie points. Especially since many people turn it off all the time. We lucked out in that my wife's 2022 Explorer had it excluded at the factory due to a covid shortage (and we got a credit on the window sticker!).

The Auto Start Stop requirement was silly. We need fewer silly regulations. There are a lot better ways to mandate cleaner vehicles.

You own and like your hybrid, I own an eco, that’s what I wanted, I respect your decision. I will never put down a person that chooses that. Hence I expect respect for my decision as well, If not, then

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