Auto Stop/Start may be going away (per EPA)

[Tyler]

I dont completely understand the "now were fixing it" aspect. I am not up to par on all the rules and regulations... but to my understanding the auto start/stop is not mandated to be on vehicles. and if that is in fact true... how are you going to force private companies to not use them...and why?

The "EPA fuel mileage" that manufacturers use for highway and city is a "drive schedule" test created by the EPA on a dyno. In these specific tests, auto start-stop substantially increases fuel mileage. The big problem with this is that the EPA fuel economy tests do not indicate how many people drive; for example, the highway test averages 48 mph and does not go above 60 mph.

Real-world data suggests that real-world driving schedules do not see a massive fuel economy increase from auto start-stop technology for most Americans. Manufacturers only include it to "game" the EPA city drive schedule.. Hopefully, the EPA plans to update its driving schedules to reflect the average driver better. If these tests do not significantly benefit from auto start-stop technology, manufacturers will likely remove it as an added cost widely disliked by many consumers.

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[BlueOval1954]

Dumb.

100% of vehicles need to be hybrid.
Now.

Demand a hybrid mandate.
Do it.
Do it now.

No way. I will loose some towing capacity and giddyup.

 

[710-oil-614]

people either don't notice, or they hate it.

there is no one that loves it. OOOH let's see how much I can shorten the life on my turbo's center bearing and hesitate from a 4 way stop, or when parking. all this in exchange for... NO gas savings unless you're in gridlock!

Fords execution is not great and the ecoboost is abrupt and rough when stopping and starting for like you said - virtually no gas savings.

It was much less intrusive and noticeable in my Civic with the 1.5L turbo 4.

 

[710-oil-614]

No way. I will loose some towing capacity and giddyup.

You won’t lose any tow capacity and Ford has the ability to pair the 2.0 ecoboost to the HF55 for a Maverick Powerboost. I honestly believe the changes they made to the 2.0 this year are in preparation for that to happen in 2028.

 

[HeyBales]

but its not required...unlike lets say the rear camera. thats where I dont understand the issue. There are brand new vehicles being made without the auto start stop. no issues/rules saying it needs it...etc. some manufactures made the decision to use them (I assume) because of the clients (aka customers). if they figure nobody uses it, then they no longer use it.

Prime example.... look at the Ford Parking Assist thing...where it would help you parallel park. What current Ford vehicles still have that feature? Should be none....they stopped it.

They cut emissions during the standard testing - so the manufacturer themselves wanted it.

If they have figured out other ways to cut them enough, some are indeed dropping it or making it optional default off.

Certainly adds a whole lot of complexity to the whole vehicle if it's done right, lot of extra expenses.

Perhaps those other things were getting hit under warranty making it not such a great deal anymore.
Or they did indeed figure out another way to lower their emission figures.
Or they have enough hybrids in their lineup that they meet the EPA requirements as a total fleet.

 

[colinl]

In these specific tests, auto start-stop substantially increases fuel mileage.

I call BS. Reference or citation, please?

Autostop never gave any substantial fuel savings, unless 1 mpg is considered substantial. EPA doesn't even know the savings in the real world, every now and then they estimate it at 1-2 mpg, but without a lot of data from smart vehicles, there's no way to know.

 

[Snox801]

Dumb.

100% of vehicles need to be hybrid.
Now.

Demand a hybrid mandate.
Do it.
Do it now.

Nope I’d rather same my balls in the door of my maverick than drive a hybrid. They do nothing for me.

 

[710-oil-614]

Nope I’d rather same my balls in the door of my maverick than drive a hybrid. They do nothing for me.

Powerboost is crazy. Don’t understand why you wouldn’t want a stronger transaxle and more power.

But I guess you like slamming you balls in vehicle doors….

 

[Snox801]

Looking forward to my hybrid. And hoping things don't get too heated here. It's the environment - we're all breathing the same air.

We all do breath the same air but we also live on the same planet. Does us no good to make standards that drive down reliability and consume more resources to try and fight for clean air. Meanwhile the country that supplies the batteries for “clean” cars strip mine and pollute bad. That says nothing about the tire dust they create.
This is not intended to get anyone heated just food for thought.
I’m more of buy what you like and want type and stop worrying about what others are doing or buying. I like the fact others like hybrids it’s just not for me. And it’s good we have choices

 

[Snox801]

Powerboost is crazy. Don’t understand why you wouldn’t want a stronger transaxle and more power.

But I guess you like slamming you balls in vehicle doors….

I don’t want more electric stuff or more elaborate systems. I have one power train and I like it. The hybrid is a slow version of the maverick. It has much less power and a much different power delivery.
Zero chance that a hybrid will be able to pull the same as a ecoboost up steep grades for long distance.

 

[inline_five]

No way. I will loose some towing capacity and giddyup.

Done correctly a hybrid would have more capability and giddyup than a purely gas drivetrain.

The hybrid electric motor is basically a turbo with zero lag and instant torque with no loss of power as altitude increases.

 

[inline_five]

I don’t want more electric stuff or more elaborate systems. I have one power train and I like it. The hybrid is a slow version of the maverick. It has much less power and a much different power delivery.
Zero chance that a hybrid will be able to pull the same as a ecoboost up steep grades for long distance.

Yet a DI, turbo'd engine along with the 8-speed transmission (which is failure prone) is already incredibly complex. The 2.5l on the hybrid paired with two simple electric motors for its transmission is simple by comparison.

Even better, the electric reserve capacity is easily expandable by adding additional lithium battery banks, and can be done for about $200/kwh.

 

[710-oil-614]

I don’t want more electric stuff or more elaborate systems. I have one power train and I like it. The hybrid is a slow version of the maverick. It has much less power and a much different power delivery.
Zero chance that a hybrid will be able to pull the same as a ecoboost up steep grades for long distance.

1. HF55 is more simple and robust than the 8F35 so you are wrong about complexity.

2. A Ford powerboost drivetrain combines an ecoboost engine with a hybrid transaxle. It’s truly the best of both worlds.

Some people just like smashing their balls though.

 

[Snox801]

You won’t lose any tow capacity and Ford has the ability to pair the 2.0 ecoboost to the HF55 for a Maverick Powerboost. I honestly believe the changes they made to the 2.0 this year are in preparation for that to happen in 2028.

Won’t matter that electric part only last so long. And yes he still loses power. Until the launch a power boost your point is moot. Not to mention it will add cost.
Just compare a power boost f-150 to a 3.5 only.

 

[Snox801]

1. HF55 is more simple and robust than the 8F35 so you are wrong about complexity.

2. A Ford powerboost drivetrain combines an ecoboost engine with a hybrid transaxle. It’s truly the best of both worlds.

Some people just like smashing the balls though.

That fact you think the hf55 is more robust is just wrong. We simply can’t know until people start regularly pulling and hauling with them the same 4K and seeing. Anything g else is just hoping and dreaming.

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