Ford delays new EV pickup to 2027

[PNWMaverick]

To be clear, I am not anti-EV. But I think the industry has some ways to go before the average consumer will accept them, similar to the hybrid.

I saw a review of the new VW Bus EV. One thing that killed it is the range. Just 250 miles on a vehicle that is obviously made for long-distance travel. My 4K-EB Maverick averages roughly 400 miles a tank. In my opinion, the range of an EV needs to be 350-400 miles, minimum. Offering anything less than that on a vehicle that is meant for traveling is simply not acceptable.

And I get it. 250 miles is 3-4 hours of driving and even I will want a break. But until the EV charging infrastructure matures, 250 is just too low. Until I can just mindlessly get on the road without having to plan charging stops, it will be a tough sell.

I also think it is time for the government to come up with a standard for measuring range as driving at highway speeds in the summer heat with an a/c blowing will undoubtedly impact range more than driving in a city in the spring.

I think the PHEV and XR-PHEV approach will be how consumers eventually get into the electric game. It provides the benefit of electric with the convenience of gas.

"But, but, but the average person only drives XX miles per day!!"

Range anxiety is dealt with in one of two ways.

1. Charge time and convenience gets down to the same as filling up an ICE vehicle.
2. Have a range of 600+ miles with a robust charging network.

Why the extreme range? Very, very, few people will do more than 600 miles in a day on a long trip. You either reach your destination and can plug in while resting or you are stopping for the night and will plug in. For typical use it just means you have to go sit at the charging station less often if you aren't (like the vast majority of people) able to charge at home.

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[LSchicago]

I think we will see the ecoboost dropped eventually from the Maverick and it will be only hybrid. I'm actually surprised they didn't drop it for the refresh now that the hybrid has AWD and the 4k tow package.

Yes, just like Camry and Sienna now. You buy Hybrid, or something else. Hybrid is the only offering on those.

 

[LSchicago]

To be clear, I am not anti-EV. But I think the industry has some ways to go before the average consumer will accept them, similar to the hybrid.

I saw a review of the new VW Bus EV. One thing that killed it is the range. Just 250 miles on a vehicle that is obviously made for long-distance travel. My 4K-EB Maverick averages roughly 400 miles a tank. In my opinion, the range of an EV needs to be 350-400 miles, minimum. Offering anything less than that on a vehicle that is meant for traveling is simply not acceptable.

And I get it. 250 miles is 3-4 hours of driving and even I will want a break. But until the EV charging infrastructure matures, 250 is just too low. Until I can just mindlessly get on the road without having to plan charging stops, it will be a tough sell.

I also think it is time for the government to come up with a standard for measuring range as driving at highway speeds in the summer heat with an a/c blowing will undoubtedly impact range more than driving in a city in the spring.

I think the PHEV and XR-PHEV approach will be how consumers eventually get into the electric game. It provides the benefit of electric with the convenience of gas.

I think we are WELL past the common acceptance of Hybrids. Half of the new vehicles in the US are offered as hybrids, and more and more offered only as Hybrids. And the Hybrids are quickly increasing their yearly sales numbers.

 

[commadorebob]

I think we are WELL past the common acceptance of Hybrids. Half of the new vehicles in the US are offered as hybrids, and more and more offered only as Hybrids. And the Hybrids are quickly increasing their yearly sales numbers.

Exactly, but the first commercial hybrid came out 20+ years ago and is only now starting to be popular because the technology matured.

I have seen papers on new battery technology that might cause EVs to become no-brainers. But it isn't today.

 

[LSchicago]

Exactly, but the first commercial hybrid came out 20+ years ago and is only now starting to be popular because the technology matured.

I have seen papers on new battery technology that might cause EVs to become no-brainers. But it isn't today.

EV's are still a ways off for major acceptance. But Hybrids? They are winning now. Sales went up 53% in 2023 over 2022. We can expect even more Hybrid sales this year. I'd say within 5 more years (end of the decade), Hybrids will eclipse ICE vehicle sales. It may take another 10 years before EV's are a major player in the US. https://www.morningstar.com/news/ma...rs-say-americans-are-going-all-in-for-hybrids

 

[Bob The Builder]

This all sounds very reminiscent of the approach Toyota has been taking for years.

On the plus side, Dodge is coming out with an EV muscle car called the Banshee with fake stereophonic big block V8 sounds emanating from fake tail pipes and a fake manual transmission called eRupt.

Maybe the only thing that will not be fake about the car will be the window sticker.

 

[commadorebob]

This all sounds very reminiscent of the approach Toyota has been taking for years.

On the plus side, Dodge is coming out with an EV muscle car called the Banshee with stereophonic big block V8 sounds emanating from fake tail pipes and a fake manual transmission called eRupt.

Maybe the only thing that will not be fake about the car will be the window sticker.

Yeah, but come on, did you expect any different from Dodge? I would not be surprised if their EV-only strategy is some sort of CAFE-standards back payment to account for the hellcats that burn more fuel starting up than my Maverick even holds.

 

[Bob The Builder]

Yeah, but come on, did you expect any different from Dodge? I would not be surprised if their EV-only strategy is some sort of CAFE-standards back payment to account for the hellcats that burn more fuel starting up than my Maverick even holds.

The Hellcat Is gone along with the Hemi engine in general. The Hemi may still be used in some larger trucks that I am unaware of.

I would say that, in and of itself, will boost Dodge's CAFE standards somewhat.

Joking aside, they will sell the Banshee as the thing will be faster than a scalded cat on steroids and loaded to the gills with all the tech available at the time. Price tag: 6 figures easily. The new vehicle of choice for all the drug dealers now the the Hellcat is gone.

 

[todd92]

Ford is the hybrid mystery. The hybrid Fusion came out in 2009, I remember looking at it and quickly losing interest because the battery ate up the trunk and it was a boring car made more boring by the hybrid powertrain. So here we are 15 years later, with the same basic powertrain in the Maverick and nothing but problems. You would think they had it figured out by now.

 

[A Sturdy Beast]

Not surprising. The majority of people that were/are going to adopt EVs, in their current state, have done so. With some exceptions in countries that have governmentally gone all-in on EVs.

Using Tesla as an example, instead of innovating while they had a dominant lead, they just sat on their hands and let their product stagnate. A model S today is functionally and aesthetically the same car as it was 10 years ago. Not to mention the brand damage Musk as caused by alienating his core customer base. Something I only mention because Tesla has become synonymous with "EV" and any bad look with them reflects.

Meanwhile, the other auto manufacturers spent their time arguing with each other about EV viability. Toyota took their ball and went home, built a hydrogen vehicle, and then cried when no one wanted to play.

We effectively lost 10 years of development on EV technologies, mainly battery and charging technologies. Which, until both of those are solved, EVs will continue to be a luxury for urban people.



As of June of this year Bank of America stated that EV adoption rates for 2024 are sitting around 6.8% while in 2023 it was about 7.5%. The forecast for 2024 was 10%, we are way off from that.

In an ultra-capitalistic society this is viewed as "tanking" because, "Line no go up."

edit:

If you look where EV adoption is increasing in the USA it is almost exclusively California. In specific areas and with a specific demographic. If you look at the more rural areas it is reversing.

Slingshot didn’t didn’t say market share. He said sales. Sales are up. Market share is up too.

"Record 1.2 Million EVs Were Sold in the U.S. in 2023"
https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q4-2023-ev-sales/

The BOA link in your post blames the same problem that I mentioned earlier. Lack of affordable electric vehicles.

BOA also says electric was 7.5% of sales in 2023, and they expect it to be “8% of vehicle sales in 2024, 14% in 2027 and 29% in 2030.” I’m having a hard time understanding how those numbers are the often cited as “tanking.”

About rural, of course they are less likely to be a good fit there. But the very large majority of people live in cities and suburbs.

 

[SLINGSHOT]

Ford announced F150 EV will not come out until 2027. Other EV models also pushed back.
In the tank they go.

 

[todd92]

Ford announced F150 EV will not come out until 2027. Other EV models also pushed back.
In the tank they go.

The F150 EV came out last year, it's called the Lightning and they're piled up unsold.

 

[OneAlienBoi]

I think the problem is that electrics are over luxuried and over priced.

With no ICE, single modest electric motor, and modest battery size, they should be cheap. I don’t want a $60,000+ vehicle, EV or not.

Give me a $25,000 electric Maverick. I don’t care if the range is only a couple of hundred miles. It won’t be for everyone. But for those of us that can recharge at home, and seldom take long trips, it would be perfect.

That's basically what this new EV truck will be, something barebones, but cheap, especially for an ev. The range will most likely be in the 200s.

My inside sources tell me it's a compact truck like the maverick, but may not be identical to the maverick in looks, and won't share the c2 platforming, using CE1 instead, which is basically Ford's C2 of EV platforms in size, price point, and flexibility.

 

[OneAlienBoi]

The F150 EV came out last year, it's called the Lightning and they're piled up unsold.

The issue with the f-150 lightning is the higher up in truck size and pricing you go, the more conservative your pool of buyers becomes, both in terms of technology acceptance, and political views. The people who own mavericks are more open-minded, and accepting of things like EVs, because they tend to be a little younger.

A smaller, cheaper truck,is gonna use a much smaller, cheaper battery pack, making a profitable EV much easier. But it also means you're appealing to demographics who are more willing to want an EV in the first place.

 

[OneAlienBoi]

Slingshot didn’t didn’t say market share. He said sales. Sales are up. Market share is up too.

"Record 1.2 Million EVs Were Sold in the U.S. in 2023"
https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q4-2023-ev-sales/

The BOA link in your post blames the same problem that I mentioned earlier. Lack of affordable electric vehicles.

BOA also says electric was 7.5% of sales in 2023, and they expect it to be “8% of vehicle sales in 2024, 14% in 2027 and 29% in 2030.” I’m having a hard time understanding how those numbers are the often cited as “tanking.”

About rural, of course they are less likely to be a good fit there. But the very large majority of people live in cities and suburbs.

People are only thinking EVs are tanking because they're falling short of originally projected adoption rates, which were overly optimistic. I agree with you, we're still seeing growth, we're seeing more growth in hybrid and EV sales numbers than we are with most other segments of the market. So the people calling EVs failures don't really know what they're talking about.

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