Another Speaker Upgrade

[Raymundo76]

Took my 24 Mav Lariat to Kar tunes (Tempe, AZ). Replaced the B & O front door speakers with Hertz DCX-1653 two way 6.5" speakers. Also had Sound Shield added to both doors. It was not cheap. Had I done the work myself (which , at my age, was not really possible); I could have saved about $250. The combination of new speakers and the insulation resulted in an improvement in quality and level. Was it worth it? I thing so; but you may not. I must say that the B & O speakers looked really cheap. As an added benefit road noise should be less.

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[colinl]

Replaced the B & O front door speakers with Hertz DCX-1653 two way 6.5" speakers.

I read your post and initially overlooked this. Did you buy coaxial or component speakers? And did the shop recommend those, or did you specifically chose them on your own?

The b&o system has electronic crossovers and bi amps the front doors and dash tweeters, and you need to replace them with components for 3 reasons:

1. You'll keep using the stock b&o tweeter otherwise, which is actually decent quality compared to the 6.5, but not great and definitely not as good as a Hertz tweeter.

2. The door 6.5 can't use a coaxial tweeter because it has a bandpass crossover. You wouldn't want 2 sets of tweeters playing anyway, but the one that isn't being used is your new coaxial.

3. The sync3 unit is tuned for the dash mount and subsequent reflected sound. It's definitely superior to a coaxial tweeter which is aimed at your legs and is way off axis for your head.

 

[Raymundo76]

I read your post and initially overlooked this. Did you buy coaxial or component speakers? And did the shop recommend those, or did you specifically chose them on your own?

The b&o system has electronic crossovers and bi amps the front doors and dash tweeters, and you need to replace them with components for 3 reasons:

1. You'll keep using the stock b&o tweeter otherwise, which is actually decent quality compared to the 6.5, but not great and definitely not as good as a Hertz tweeter.

2. The door 6.5 can't use a coaxial tweeter because it has a bandpass crossover. You wouldn't want 2 sets of tweeters playing anyway, but the one that isn't being used is your new coaxial.

3. The sync3 unit is tuned for the dash mount and subsequent reflected sound. It's definitely superior to a coaxial tweeter which is aimed at your legs and is way off axis for your head.

The shop recommended component, but they were $100 more. So I opted for these. They said not to worry they would make these work. I did not ask how. The lows, mids, and highs are so much better; I cannot believe that the B & O was so crappy. They gave me the old door speakers., they were cheap paper without moisture protection. I picked these because reviewers said they were the best entry level replacement speakers, had a frequency response of 60 to 21khz, and were super efficient. Since I was not replacing the entire system the door speakers seemed to be the best bang for the buck. While I am not an audio geek; I have good hearing for my age , and I know what I like, and these sound great.

 

[colinl]

as long as you're happy that's all that matters. I probably failed to describe the operation of the sync3 audio module and the b&o amp well enough to make it clear why I am confident you're still hearing the stock b&o tweeters.

the midrange and midbass of your new 6.5 I'm sure is a massive improvement.

 

[Raymundo76]

as long as you're happy that's all that matters. I probably failed to describe the operation of the sync3 audio module and the b&o amp well enough to make it clear why I am confident you're still hearing the stock b&o tweeters.

the midrange and midbass of your new 6.5 I'm sure is a massive improvement.

No I got your meaning; thanks for your input. The primary reason for using Kar Tunes was my complete confidence in the quality of their work. I have used them for over 20 years; and was reluctant to go with another company. That did some what limit my speaker options within my budget. I think the sound deadening recommended by Kar Tunes made a major impact. The 1653's are so efficient that I had to make major adjustments in the speaker settings, all in all, I am very happy with the results. The high costs associated with professional installs was a real shock however.

 

[colinl]

The primary reason for using Kar Tunes was my complete confidence in the quality of their work. I have used them for over 20 years; and was reluctant to go with another company.

I suppose. if everything you've said here is literally correct, and all they did was replace the door speakers, $250 is very expensive labor.

I am just a hobbyist and I can do the job in under 90 minutes - a pro shop that has worked on a Maverick before can probably do it in 45 minutes or less. they would have more time to do the dash tweeters, but again, the B&O system has separate electronic crossovers and amplification for the 6.5 in the door and the 1" dome tweeters in the dash, and they would not have to install a physical crossover or tune anything if you had bought the Hertz components instead of coaxials.

play some music at volume 15-20 that you're familiar with that has high frequencies like a guitar solo, or female vocalist in the upper ranges. open the door and put your head near the 6.5 speaker grille - I would bet that the high frequencies are not there.

BTW I am not trying to pick on you. I am hoping to educate you to reconsider the value the components and go back to the shop and ask them to swap them. Or at the least, inform others with the B&O system not to install coaxials.

 

[Raymundo76]

I suppose. if everything you've said here is literally correct, and all they did was replace the door speakers, $250 is very expensive labor.

I am just a hobbyist and I can do the job in under 90 minutes - a pro shop that has worked on a Maverick before can probably do it in 45 minutes or less. they would have more time to do the dash tweeters, but again, the B&O system has separate electronic crossovers and amplification for the 6.5 in the door and the 1" dome tweeters in the dash, and they would not have to install a physical crossover or tune anything if you had bought the Hertz components instead of coaxials.

play some music at volume 15-20 that you're familiar with that has high frequencies like a guitar solo, or female vocalist in the upper ranges. open the door and put your head near the 6.5 speaker grille - I would bet that the high frequencies are not there.

BTW I am not trying to pick on you. I am hoping to educate you to reconsider the value the components and go back to the shop and ask them to swap them. Or at the least, inform others with the B&O system not to install coaxials.

Again thank you for your input; you have made your point. FYI I did not say the labor was $250 ; I said I could have saved $250 if I could have done the work myself . As you know shops generally charge more for components than say Amazon. Considering the time that was required to do the work, I am not sure that they just installed the speakers in the door, although they may have. You on the other hand , from your vantage point are sure they did. You are more than welcome to come over to my garage and check out your theories. I think it is time to move on.

 

[SpaceCowboy]

Again thank you for your input; you have made your point. FYI I did not say the labor was $250 ; I said I could have saved $250 if I could have done the work myself . As you know shops generally charge more for components than say Amazon. Considering the time that was required to do the work, I am not sure that they just installed the speakers in the door, although they may have. You on the other hand , from your vantage point are sure they did. You are more than welcome to come over to my garage and check out your theories. I think it is time to move on.

So basically your whole thread is garbage then. You paid for something but don't know exactly what was done and now you are experiencing euphoria due to a light wallet. Very few people understand DSPs.

The only benefit you gained was sound deadening.

 

[colinl]

The only benefit you gained was sound deadening.

not at all - the B&O 6.5 has pretty terrible midbass, and it's a massive upgrade replacing it.

I'm 48- I don't want to guess at the OPs age, but suggest Dire Straits - Money for Nothing as a good midbass demo song for B&O with either stock or replacement door speakers. Make sure the sync3 unit is set to stereo, not surround, and make sure the bass tone control is set level or as low as -3 based on your preference, and DEFINITELY NOT high positive values. (just run if you see anyone that has their bass tone control maxed. seriously.)

With those settings, turn it up to 25+ and play that track. It'll play at 30. Dramatic difference between stock B&O 6.5 and any quality replacement.

 

[SpaceCowboy]

not at all - the B&O 6.5 has pretty terrible midbass, and it's a massive upgrade replacing it.

I'm 48- I don't want to guess at the OPs age, but suggest Dire Straits - Money for Nothing as a good midbass demo song for B&O with either stock or replacement door speakers. Make sure the sync3 unit is set to stereo, not surround, and make sure the bass tone control is set level or as low as -3 based on your preference, and DEFINITELY NOT high positive values. (just run if you see anyone that has their bass tone control maxed. seriously.)

With those settings, turn it up to 25+ and play that track. It'll play at 30. Dramatic difference between stock B&O 6.5 and any quality replacement.

I've hooked up a meter and an O scope to mine. The bass will just roll off right around 16-20. I found most of any of distortion was rattles in my door which i plan to address once I flash my radio for a flat EQ. I don't really want to add DSP for just a subwoofer.

 

[Raymundo76]

So basically your whole thread is garbage then. You paid for something but don't know exactly what was done and now you are experiencing euphoria due to a light wallet. Very few people understand DSPs.

The only benefit you gained was sound deadening.

Suggest that before you go on another rant you read all of the posts. I am very happy with the sound quality the new speakers have provided. I chose them for the many reasons given, and would do so again. I am not making any recommendations as what others should do. With my health issues it is no longer possible for me to do these installs. If I were able I would have made different choices. Suggest you need to chill out; as it does no good to insult members just for the fun of it.

 

[SpaceCowboy]

Suggest that before you go on another rant you read all of the posts. I am very happy with the sound quality the new speakers have provided. I chose them for the many reasons given, and would do so again. I am not making any recommendations as what others should do. With my health issues it is no longer possible for me to do these installs. If I were able I would have made different choices. Suggest you need to chill out; as it does no good to insult members just for the fun of it.

You’re going off your ear. I’m going off scientific equipment. Ears can lie, sound and voltage measurements can’t.

Ignorance can be bliss.

In also work at a car audio shop and fix poor installs and customer decisions all the time.

 

[Raymundo76]

You’re going off your ear. I’m going off scientific equipment. Ears can lie, sound and voltage measurements can’t.

Ignorance can be bliss.

In also work at a car audio shop and fix poor installs and customer decisions all the time.

That maybe reasonable. But they are my ears, my $, my Mav, and my decision. Before I paid for the install I listened to Voodoo Lounge(Stones) CD and loved the upgrade. In any event, it does not excuse bad manners. Keep on trucking and have a great day.

 

[Bwicka]

WHAT?
I can’t hear you !
MY stereo sounds way better than yours !

congrats on your install , and yes the more sound deadoning the better for our pinto trucks “Hecht in Mexico”!
Always money well spent .

 

[colinl]

I don't really want to add DSP for just a subwoofer.

weird that you say you're in the industry and then say this. haven't you heard the difference? it is massive.

if you have and think it's expensive or complex... no, not necessarily. kicker key 500.1 solves it for under $300. there are other similar self-tuning DSP amps. 5 or 10 years ago, I get it, a DSP just means hours of tweaking on a high cost device. those devices are still out there, but there are other options now as well.

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