"Low" in the HYBRID

[GPSMan]

Does light application of the brakes = L mode or even greater stopping/regen, before the actual brake pads kick in?
This is the hybrid normal right?

Use the "power" meter with the green zone as your guide.

If the needle is in the green and NOT "on the peg" (not horizontal to the left) you are not using brake pads.

Brake pads come on to assist after your regeneration hits the maximum.

Regen stops at 3 mph and under. Brake pads bring you to a stop and hold you still at a stop.

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[Darnon]

Also, L mode does not affect how easily/often the drivetrain switches to electric driving.

Perhaps that might be the perception since it reduces throttle input percentage even more than Eco. The amount of off-throttle regen (Throttle-) and throttle input (Throttle+) are pretty much directly linked at least within the low- to moderate- demand range.

 

[GPSMan]

Also, L mode does not affect how easily/often the drivetrain switches to electric driving.

Perhaps that might be the perception since it reduces throttle input percentage even more than Eco. The amount of off-throttle regen (Throttle-) and throttle input (Throttle+) are pretty much directly linked at least within the low- to moderate- demand range.

Did you have an Early Escape Hybrid (2005-2008) by chance?

Low was believed to be an advantage in those early years.

 

[Old Ford Guy]

No.

Lets back up a minute.
There is nothing special or "extra" or "bonus" about the regeneration (recharge) you get in L versus using the brake pedal.

L is "in lieu" of pressing the brake pedal.
Call it automatic braking if you want.

The maximum charge RATE (kw) is the same.

The maximum charge QUANTITY (kwH) is the same.

The difference?

L does NOT illuminate the brake lamps. Probably a negative aspect.

L does NOT use the friction disc brakes. Can be considered a positive.

i agree with 100% of what you said but i have a question(s). while the Hybrid battery does have a maximum charge capacity isnt it also true that the different drive modes with or without using the 'L' mode result in the system trying to recapture more or less energy from braking all other things being equal? also i believe that irregardless of which given drive mode U may be in that the braking system tries to use regenerative braking until it decides that its time to engage the hydraulic pressure braking depending on vehicle speed and the operator brake pedal pressure being applied? this is what the brake coach display is telling you. i think your point about the brake lights is important, lets not get so caught up that we become a hazard to the driver behind us.

 

[lajlmt]

No.

Lets back up a minute.
There is nothing special or "extra" or "bonus" about the regeneration (recharge) you get in L versus using the brake pedal.

L is "in lieu" of pressing the brake pedal.
Call it automatic braking if you want.

The maximum charge RATE (kw) is the same.

The maximum charge QUANTITY (kwH) is the same.

The difference?

L does NOT illuminate the brake lamps. Probably a negative aspect.

L does NOT use the friction disc brakes. Can be considered a positive.

“L does NOT illuminate the brake lamps. Probably a negative aspect.” Yikes! Referring back to why Mavericks get rear ended”

 

[Darnon]

Did you have an Early Escape Hybrid (2005-2008) by chance?

Low was believed to be an advantage in those early years.

No, I had a 2014 Fusion Hybrid and in that L actually acted like some sort of low-gear mode where it'd run the eCVT in a higher gear ratio and keep it engaged for engine braking. It did have one neat trick of supposedly if you shifted into it for a second or so when the engine first started on a drive it forced the PCM to bypass the first warmup state with heavier fuel enrichment.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Use the "power" meter with the green zone as your guide.

If the needle is in the green and NOT "on the peg" (not horizontal to the left) you are not using brake pads.

Brake pads come on to assist after your regeneration hits the maximum.

Regen stops at 3 mph and under. Brake pads bring you to a stop and hold you still at a stop.

And in low over the 3mph (below which friction pads are used) the engine brake is activated before the friction brake. Try driving in stop and go 0 to 40 mph. When HVB gets charged to a certain percentage (70+/-%?) When you let off go pedal engine braking will happen and is quite loud at 40mph when In low no matter what drive mode is selected. It's possible of course brake pads could also be used in addition to engine braking if you are really on brake pedal or if engine reaches a max allowed braking rpm, I don't really know. Engine braking in such stop and go occurs for me usually within 2 miles at which time I normally take it out of low due to FORLEB (FearOfRedLineEngineBraking)

 

[GPSMan]

Yes. Engine braking is more prevalent when the battery is above half full and a basic necessity when the battery is full. And the battery is small. It's going to fill quickly on a downhill, or after just 2 or 3 stops from highway speeds.

Which is just fine most of the time. Because what do most people do after stopping? They go again, using up the stored charge.

I've said it before: stopping is like winding up a rubber band. When you go, you let the rubber band unwind.

Little secret nuance: observed on a long downhill from the mountains.

When you are in engine brake condition and the battery is full, the "charge" needle stays deep in the green zone.

This could be a programming glitch or this could be normal- if the green zone is literally an amp meter and not literally a battery charge meter.
The early Escapes had an ammeter of sorts.
The needle showed charge and discharge.

The difference is: where is the sensor located? On the input wire to the battery? Or the output wire from the traction motor? It behaves like the second.

The output wire (output current) from the traction motor is nearly the same as the charge current going into the battery, in most scenarios. But not during engine brake conditions.

During engine brake the traction motor is still generating to slow you down, but when the battery is full and cannot accept that current, it sends that current to the STARTER MOTOR/GENERATOR instead that uses that current to spin the engine without fuel, like an air compressor. The wheels are never turning the engine in "engine brake". It's not the same as a traditional vehicle. Because the same amount of current is flowing past the same sensor, the "charge" needle stays in the green. It does not know if the charge is going to the battery or the starter motor is my theory to explain what we see.

 

[FriscoTXJoe]

Not just the city. People also use it in hilly areas, instead of hitting the brake pedal when going downhill. You get more regenerative braking. Also less wear on the brake pads/rotors, similar to how people with a manual transmission "gear down" to save wear and tear on the brakes.

THAT...........I can comprehend. Thank you says the salesguy.

 

[Deleted member 1483]

I think that the meter probably stays as if it’s fully charging to avoid confusion from drivers who would wonder why their battery suddenly isn’t charging

 

[BluegrassNbass]

I tried L today.....holy crap. I was going about 40mph and let off pedal, it actually feels like I was trying to stop and turn fairly quick. It was in normal mode at the time. Not sure if it matters in different modes but I will test it tomorrow. Did see that it put the needle in the green on max.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Yes.
Also I think it evokes engine brake sooner.

Engine brake will happen if you ride the brake pedal too long in any mode. Lets say, after 30 seconds of continuous pedal press. (But I have not timed it so don't quote that as a fact.)

In low, engine brake MIGHT come on in half the time. I don't have the precise value.

Engine brake will also come on in any mode, if you ride the brake too long, and the battery is full.

I don't have equipment to view like you do but it appears to me that in low judging by the increased amount of the Regen braking amps indicated sometimes going to max and probably not activating hydraulic brakes until brake pedal is pushed. Easiest way to max Regen is by turning on low at 60mph and Regening until 20mph to turn. Three or 4 times will cause the next to be mostly if not all engine braking. Although when ambient temp is 104°F or more engine braking will occur much sooner presumably due to amperage in and out heating of HVB very quickly.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Does light application of the brakes = L mode or even greater stopping/regen, before the actual brake pads kick in?
This is the hybrid normal right?

I am thinking Regen is Regen whether by coasting or by pedal. Low just will Regen at a higher rate in low than the drive mode selected and possibly the only advantage would be 99-100% Regen braking until battery could not accept that amperage and then using hydraulic brakes for even a very short time until ice could be brought up to adequate braking. In any case hydraulic will be used as necessary to maintain the rate of slowing down for the drive mode selected. Think speed to stop is X seconds for the drive mode selected. Slippery gets most time, standard mode & low most likely the least time.

 

[Timothyd]

Push the L button, center of the shifter dial.
It's not really a "Low" like in a manual or old-school automatic. In the Hybrid, it increases regenerative braking considerably. At least it does in a buddy's Hybrid Mav. He uses it driving on the very hilly, curvy roads here, to lessen wear on the disc brake pads going down hills. He also gets better mileage in "L" mode.

I plan to use it a lot, if/when my Hybrid ever gets delivered.

Actually, the "Eco" mode gives you a lot more regen braking. So much so, I never tried the Low mode.

 

[Timothyd]

I am thinking Regen is Regen whether by coasting or by pedal. Low just will Regen at a higher rate in low than the drive mode selected and possibly the only advantage would be 99-100% Regen braking until battery could not accept that amperage and then using hydraulic brakes for even a very short time until ice could be brought up to adequate braking. In any case hydraulic will be used as necessary to maintain the rate of slowing down for the drive mode selected. Think speed to stop is X seconds for the drive mode selected. Slippery gets most time, standard mode & low most likely the least time.

I agree!

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