Hybrid Engine Fires Lawsuit

[KeinoDoggy]

Article is paywalled so I don't know the details. But I highly doubt Ford knew about a potential engine fire problem and sat there with their thumb up their rumps. Ford knowing about the problem and continuing to allow those engines to be used would be damning. But suing for being slow to come up with a solution might not float in the courts.

Caveat: Not a lawyer.

Perhaps you should read up on Ford's Pinto fiasco.

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[jsus]

No, Ford has been using this engine design since 2005 in Escape hybrids and later in Fusion and CMax hybrids. It is well tested. It is not a design problem it is a manufacturing quality problem.

To be precise, the current version of this engine has been in production since 2019 for 2020 Escape Hybrid. Previous versions of the same engine have been built at the same plant for decades, going back to that 2005 Escape Hybrid. However, the most recent previous version was a downsized 2.0L used in C-Max and Fusion vs. the current 2.5L.

Further, it may be a new production line at the engine plant, as they were building both 2.0L and 2.5L versions for the 2020 model year. Fusion went away after 2020 but kept Hybrid to the end. Escape Hybrid re-launched for 2020.

The problems aren't with the engine. They're not even with the plant's ability to put out a good engine. They're specifically about the machining of components for the current generation that never got dialed in quite right until September 2022.

 

[ladyhawkgt]

imagine getting a new engine at 100k miles lol

My neighbor got her Hyundai engine replaced at 106k on account of the extended warranty Hyundai had to give out for all the blown engines. Worked out great for her and she sold it right away and got a Bolt. she loves it.

 

[Red Ryder]

Perhaps you should read up on Ford's Pinto fiasco.

Required reading in engineering QA classes back in the '80's:
In a nutshell, Ford identified the fire issue early on and their lawyers and risk management teams determined, based upon the frequency of fatal events tied to the issue, that it was less expensive to pay the liabilities from the lawsuits than to correct the vehicles' issue. Ford pursued the more cost-effective option.

 

[commadorebob]

Perhaps you should read up on Ford's Pinto fiasco.

Which happened before the age of social media and was cancelled two years before I was even born. Hardly and apple-to-apples comparison.

 

[Skyline]

Required reading in engineering QA classes back in the '80's:
In a nutshell, Ford identified the fire issue early on and their lawyers and risk management teams determined, based upon the frequency of fatal events tied to the issue, that it was less expensive to pay the liabilities from the lawsuits than to correct the vehicles' issue. Ford pursued the more cost-effective option.

Oh, the good ol'times, when Ford cared more about the customers. Based on the fact that the first class action lawsuit about the same fault with hybrid engine had been thrown out of the court, maybe even the legal system cared more about the customers then, than nowadays...

 

[KeinoDoggy]

Which happened before the age of social media and was cancelled two years before I was even born. Hardly and apple-to-apples comparison.

My point is that Ford decided it was cheaper to ignore the possibility of exploding gas tanks than fix the design problem preemptively. Bean counters won. They'll do the same thing here. So yes, a similar situation. Since you are so young and never heard of the Pinto.....

https://www.spokesman.com/blogs/autos/2008/oct/17/pinto-memo-its-cheaper-let-them-burn/

 

[Skyline]

Some people are so young that never heard of the Pinto, while other lived half across the world at the time. In either case, thanks for the link...

 

[Automate]

Interesting fact, more people have died in Teslas that caught fire than due to the Pinto gas tank design flaw.

 

[Lone Star Proud]

If all these engines built prior to September 2022 have the same defect, why would some engines fail and not the rest? Or is it only a matter of time?

 

[Sliphorn]

If all these engines built prior to September 2022 have the same defect, why would some engines fail and not the rest? Or is it only a matter of time?

..
They probably don’t all have the defect.
..

 

[Automate]

..
They probably don’t all have the defect.
..

Right, it a quality issue not a design issue. So there are a lot of variables.

Which machine did the bearing work on the engine?
What tooling was in the machine?
When was the machine last serviced?
Did the last mechanic working on the machine do the maintenace properly?
What operators was running the machine?
Did he operate it properly?
Who was doing the quality checks?
Were quality checks done properly?

 

[Skyline]

Right, it a quality issue not a design issue. So there are a lot of variables.

Which machine did the bearing work on the engine?
What tooling was in the machine?
When was the machine last serviced?
Did the last mechanic working on the machine do the maintenace properly?
What operators was running the machine?
Did he operate it properly?
Who was doing the quality checks?
Were quality checks done properly?

Ford does manage both the design and the quality of manufacturing process. It is seemingly a quality of workmanship issue, but Ford is still on the hook.

Unfortunately, Ford cannot identify the vehicles based on these questions. As such, it's pretty much a Russian roulette that will go off for some people, sometimes in the future.

 

[Hoagus]

imagine getting a new engine at 100k miles lol

OTOH, would you want them (dealerships) doing that much mucking around in there, on a perfectly running engine with just a few thousand miles on it, when they can’t even replace an airbag without causing damage?

Would you feel more confident in the new engine?

 

[Hoagus]

Interesting fact, more people have died in Teslas that caught fire than due to the Pinto gas tank design flaw.

Source?

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