2.5 hybrid engine requires Premium Gasoline?

[MLowe05]

Ugg, give it a year and this forum’s threads will be full of “I only use premium fuel despite what the manual says” crowd just like the Honda Fit forum.

That's every car forum, unfortunately. Even the Ford guy from the KS dealer said something like "premium gives you better fuel economy" in one of his videos, even though that is not a blanket truth for all - or even most - cars.

Our G70 has a 2.0T GDI with 255hp. The G70 says "premium recommended" but there is zero difference. We've tried. There is no detectable difference in performance or MPG with premium, but there is a detectable and significant increase in cost per fill up.

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[TheGriffin1313]

From the manual.

Though it doesn't really mean the Maverick will get it's specified mileage with 87 - It does say Premium improves performance. Apparently 85 voids the warranty. Good to know (Not that any gas station I go to has 85).

Maybe one of the people who's talked to the guys driving the hybrid around and getting 40+ mpg asked about it.

85 octane or E85 is ethanol based fuel. And ethanol (alcohol) is corrosive to aluminum parts? I could be wrong though hence the void of warranty

 

[JASmith]

No it's not present specifically, but what is present is the "minimum". If Ford didn't think that it would also run better on a better grade of fuel, they would have left that out (IMPO).

I haven't seen a manufacturer not list "minimum octane" or say "or higher" though. No harm in running 93 octane if you wanted after all.

 

[Darnon]

85 octane or E85 is ethanol based fuel. And ethanol (alcohol) is corrosive to aluminum parts? I could be wrong though hence the void of warranty

85 Octane and E85 are completely different. E85 is majority ethanol to gasoline ratio. 85 Octane is still mostly gasoline, but lower octane rating so more sensitive to compression pre-detonation (pinging). It's not common to find anymore since most fuel injected cars are designed for at least 87. Some of the older Fords used to have a plug you could disconnect under the hood and it would pull additional timing for if you had to run 85 Octane.

 

[mamboman777]

85 Octane and E85 are completely different. E85 is majority ethanol to gasoline ratio. 85 Octane is still mostly gasoline, but lower octane rating so more sensitive to compression pre-detonation (pinging). It's not common to find anymore since most fuel injected cars are designed for at least 87. Some of the older Fords used to have a plug you could disconnect under the hood and it would pull additional timing for if you had to run 85 Octane.

This is a good point. I think some 87 is better than some 93 and sometimes it's the other way around. I've heard that sometimes gas companies blend in ethanol to increase the octane. Those would cause more corrosion and get worse had mileage because ethanol has less potential energy.

That being said, I've also heard that some gas stations pump %0 ethanol in their 93, in which case, I think 93 would benefit the engine.

I think most stations pump %10 ethanol (the max where I'm at) in their 93 to increase the octane rating. If they do %10 in their 93 and %7-8 in their 87, the 87 would actually be better.

I think the best gas for ICE's is %0 ethanol. In Texas, the cost of that far outweighs the benefits, IMO.

To each their own. Whatever you choose, I hope your Maverick runs well for a long, long time.

 

[Whitenight]

I haven't seen a manufacturer not list "minimum octane" or say "or higher" though. No harm in running 93 octane if you wanted after all.

Maybe not specifically, but from the owners manual for both the EcoBoost and they Hybrid, Ford printed the following:

For best overall vehicle and engine
performance, premium fuel with an octane
rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The
performance gained by using premium fuel
is most noticeable in hot weather as well
as other conditions, for example when
towing a trailer.

 

[martyi48]

What does hot weather have to do with it?

 

[fbov]

the 2.5 hybrid engine specs that it has 13.5 to 1 compression

the effective CR of this engine is something lower than the listed 13.5:1.

It starts at 90% and drops as low as 50%, which engineers see as twice the power stroke of a non-Atkinson engine. Here's the fill-ratio map for a similar ICE from Toyota, in terms of power stroke/intake stroke (50% fill = 2.0). This ICE gets almost 40% efficiency inside the 2.0 circle.

I think the best gas for ICE's is %0 ethanol. In Texas, the cost of that far outweighs the benefits, IMO

Right on both counts.

Pure gas can give you a mileage bump, but only if you're getting great mileage. My good comparison was driving a C-Max. I saw ~58.5 mpg on E0, 55 mpg on E10, 6% better. The cost is much more than the benefit, and you only get a benefit if driving very efficiently. This difference disappears on the highway, where the car rarely broke 40 mpg.

But it's cheap bragging rights....

 

[MLowe05]

The hybrid doesn't have its own specific manual, it's the same one. And the beginning of the section says the cars are designed to run on 87.

Take a look at this chart for the 2017 F150 3.5 Ecoboost - another car that "recommends" but does not require premium, test ran by AAA:

Now you can't exactly extrapolate this data to the Maverick and assume it will be exactly the same, but this is a good representation of how little return you get for the extra outlay that premium fuel costs (which is .70c more per gallon in GA).

You think you'll feel the difference in a Maverick Hybrid if instead of 155tq it has 153.75tq? You think you'll notice if your 191hp is 188.5hp?

I won't. Premium is a waste of money in any car that does not absolutely require it.

 

[MLowe05]

What does hot weather have to do with it?

Engines are more prone to pre-igntion in hotter weather. This is especially true in hot weather and under heavy load, such as towing.

 

[JASmith]

I've heard that sometimes gas companies blend in ethanol to increase the octane.

Generally speaking, most major cities are going to have a requirement for 10% ethanol as an oxygenate to reduce emissions (in place of now banned MTBE), so it doesn't matter which octane you pick at the pump.

The law requires labeling of ethanol content of fuel, so if only the pump is labeled 10% ethanol, then that means all grades are, otherwise the grades will have a sticker showing what ethanol percent they are.

When it comes to higher octane fuels and why it costs more, the answer is basically... CRACK!

They start with thick crude that has all kinds of chemicals in it, and at the refinery they "crack" the oil into a wide variety of different components with heat and pressure and chemicals and catalysts and everything that go into different tubes all separated. Some stuff goes into your toothpaste, some into your keyboard, and the other stuff into gasoline. Some of the desired products have a high loss rate and are generally expensive to make that have the high octane rating, and gasoline is a blend of various chemicals with the desired properties with lower octane having less of those components and higher octane being the one with more of those refined components. When it comes to the blends, they generally only have two blends, just low octane and high octane that they transport with trucks to your gas station. Midgrade gets mixed from the low octane and high octane underground fuel tank at the station. When it comes to the proprietary cleaners and what not, since they are usually required by government, they are included in all octanes so that's not an issue.

Basically, you just buy what the manufacturer recommends octane wise. For turbocharged engines, generally they can run on low octane, but under sustained high boost or when its really dry and hot out then you can get quite a bit of extra horsepower from higher octane.

 

[TheGriffin1313]

85 Octane and E85 are completely different. E85 is majority ethanol to gasoline ratio. 85 Octane is still mostly gasoline, but lower octane rating so more sensitive to compression pre-detonation (pinging). It's not common to find anymore since most fuel injected cars are designed for at least 87. Some of the older Fords used to have a plug you could disconnect under the hood and it would pull additional timing for if you had to run 85 Octane.

The only 85 octane I have seen is with ethanol content of 25% or more

 

[huunvubu]

Ugg, give it a year and this forum’s threads will be full of “I only use premium fuel despite what the manual says” crowd just like the Honda Fit forum.

Exactly right.

But yeah, from what I am seeing, hybrid is 87; Ecoboost is 91 recommended (if you want the full 250hp), 87 minimum.

The hybrid isn’t a turbo direct injection engine attempting to squeeze out every ounce of power from a smaller engine like the 2.0.

The hybrid is 2.5 multiport injection natural aspirated atkinson cycle engine. Think of it like the prius. It is designed to run on regular and won’t see the HP gains from premium like you would in the Ecoboost.

Great explanation.

I wish Ford would have seperate sections for the Hybrid and the EcoBoost engines.
If they did it sure would reduce threads like this one with lots of mis-information.

 

[Wire4money]

The only 85 octane I have seen is with ethanol content of 25% or more

It’s very common in Utah and Colorado.

 

[TooManyVehicles]

In my 2015 F150 3.5L eco-boost I use 87 Octane. I've averaged north of 20 MPG over the 73K miles on it, and that includes running with snows over six months/year, having 250+ # of weight in the bed in winter, remote starting it to warm up in the winter, frequently having a bed full of wood, mulch, or dirt, and occasionally towing an L-series Kubota on a 20 ft. utility trailer. The only exception to the 87 has been the occasional use of 91 octane ethanol-free. I do that when towing the tractor, and sometimes when I am filling up gas cans for my mower, chain saws, etc...in which I only use ethanol-free. (I will first pump to the truck before filling up the cans so I know I am only getting ethanol-free in the gas cans.)

It has run fine in the summer, fine in the winter, fine in the spring and fall. I live in a mountainous area of the North East, so plenty of hills.

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