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I will find out next week when mine goes in
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TSB 22-2493 issued for 2.5L Hybrid Maverick grabby brakes (at or below 6.2 MPH)
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[Note: Edited to correct my terminology. I kept saying "AutoStop" when I meant "AutoHold."]
The following is NOT a fix, by any means, but a possible work-around...
I have a hybrid, but have experienced a similar, yet slightly different issue than the one you're discussing. I was having some trouble parking my Maverick in the garage, using a "bump stop" to prevent pulling too far in... I would often stop short of that bumper, and then it would be very difficult to ease forward 3-4 inches because
With the help of others on this forum, I finally realized that turning off the
) – makes it MUCH easier to ease forward without lurching. It also makes it easier to come to a smooth stop when driving on the road. I've started turning that feature off in stop-and-go traffic when I'm not using the Adaptive Cruise Control. As I said - not a fix, but a possible work-around.
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Thanks for posting
those are 2 very different things. Auto stop has absolutely nothing to do with the brake lunge and clunk issue the software update tries to address. It’s possible there are folks that are confusing the annoying auto stop feature with the very different braking issue.The following is NOT a fix, by any means, but a possible work-around...
I have a hybrid, but have experienced a similar, yet slightly different issue than the one you're discussing. I was having some trouble parking my Maverick in the garage, using a "bump stop" to prevent pulling too far in... I would often stop short of that bumper, and then it would be very difficult to ease forward 3-4 inches because "AutoStop" would engage. Releasing AutoStop requires a bit of throttle application, which would usually cause the truck to lurch forward a bit. Applying the brakes to prevent "bashing" the bumper stop would definitely cause the truck to "lurch"...
With the help of others on this forum, I finally realized that turning off the AutoStop using the button at the back right of the center console – the one with an icon of a hand inside parentheses, like this (
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Yes. Please don't confuse "auto stop" with "Auto Hold".
Auto Stop is a feature of EcoBoosts and F-150's. The engine auto stops at stoplights. Then turns back on when you release the brake (because they have no electric traction motor).
The button on the Hybrids is to auto hold the brakes on while stopped. You can release the brake pedal and hold your position. Requires some "go" pedal to release.
HTH
Auto Stop is a feature of EcoBoosts and F-150's. The engine auto stops at stoplights. Then turns back on when you release the brake (because they have no electric traction motor).
The button on the Hybrids is to auto hold the brakes on while stopped. You can release the brake pedal and hold your position. Requires some "go" pedal to release.
HTH
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The hybrid does have auto stop start but no button to turn off. It turns on and off automatically.
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You are both 100% correct. I used the wrong terminology. I was talking about AutoHold, not AutoStop. I've corrected my original post, and noted the change.
I DO believe the symptoms are similar enough that there could be a relationship between them. If AutoHold is engaging too early in some cases (i.e. - before coming to a complete stop), and then disengaging, it could cause the same kind "lurch" being experienced by some.
Again, I'm NOT saying this is a cure. But it might help alleviate the symptoms by removing AutoHold from the equation. It may or may not help your situation. I'm just suggesting you give it a try to see if it does. I cannot tell you myself, because I have not experienced the exact situation with my own Hybrid Maverick that is reported in this thread.
Auto Hold does not do anything at all until 1) the vehicle comes to a complete stop, 2) the brake pedal is sufficiently depressed. It requires holding down the brake pedal more firmly than the minimum needed to keep the vehicle stopped, and will illuminate the icon on the dash once it does activate.
Correct. No hybrids have a way to turn off auto stop that I know of. It is part of how a hybrid works. At anytime you stop, unless you are demanding heat from the gas engine, the engine will stop.
Nope. Nothing to do with the Auto Hold feature, just bad software programming. Got my TSB done today and brakes are acting correctly so far. Also they updated all modules that would take updates and replaced the EGR sensor mentioned in TSB 22-2493. So far happy camper.
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I had the TSB done today and am very impressed with the outcome so far. A quick recap and some observations:
- I setup the appt saying that my brakes were acting up and inconsistent. That I had heard there was a TSB to address. When I arrived this morning, I had a printout of the TSB and highlighted the portion that said "OR brakes grab at speeds below 6.2mpg." I told the service rep that I was having that issue and that the procedure for an update was there. They said they'd look at it and call me with an update. I got a call to come pick it up around 4PM (dropped of ~7:15am). Hopefully this helps others for what to provide when you arrive to make sure they do the TSB.
- The service guy that picked me up to go get my truck shared some details: It was the first one that they had done and had not heard that the TSB was issued before I arrived, but expected others would be coming. They had their senior most master-tech work on it. He acknowledged the grabby brake issue with Mavs and apparantly was relieved they had a fix. Mine took the software update/ calibration with no issues. My mav did not have any of the other errors mentioned in the TSB. I know someone thought that might have something to do with build date, mine was manufactured in September, delivered in Oct, consistent with that poster's hypothesis that later manufactured trucks were easier to update.
- The update appears to work really well. The brake pedal feel is linear and predictable in each instance I've used it since I picked it up. I will continue to monitor it, but so far it is great and almost consistent with gas vehicle's brakes.
- My hypothesis (and to be clear, I am purely speculating and am totally unqualified to make): I think Ford made it to where the traditional brakes engage from the moment you depress the brake pedal and then increase consistently / linearly. I observed that the "regen braking only" bar on the EV coach brakes harder than it did before the TSB with equivilent levels of force. EV coach says its still all regen, but I'm skeptical. When i brake even harder, it will exceed the regen braking bar (go outside of the green to the gray part), but there is absolutely no noticeable feel (like the traditional brakes are engaging) when that happens. If that's the case, it means that braking is smoother because it doesn't switch from one system to another, just uses them both at varying levels. That smooths out the transition, but I suppose could mean slightly less regen at light braking and slight increase in brake pad wear over time. If that's the case, it's a tradeoff I'll gladly make. Again, I could be totally wrong, just how it feels.
Overall 10/10 service and outcome. Very happy customer.
- I setup the appt saying that my brakes were acting up and inconsistent. That I had heard there was a TSB to address. When I arrived this morning, I had a printout of the TSB and highlighted the portion that said "OR brakes grab at speeds below 6.2mpg." I told the service rep that I was having that issue and that the procedure for an update was there. They said they'd look at it and call me with an update. I got a call to come pick it up around 4PM (dropped of ~7:15am). Hopefully this helps others for what to provide when you arrive to make sure they do the TSB.
- The service guy that picked me up to go get my truck shared some details: It was the first one that they had done and had not heard that the TSB was issued before I arrived, but expected others would be coming. They had their senior most master-tech work on it. He acknowledged the grabby brake issue with Mavs and apparantly was relieved they had a fix. Mine took the software update/ calibration with no issues. My mav did not have any of the other errors mentioned in the TSB. I know someone thought that might have something to do with build date, mine was manufactured in September, delivered in Oct, consistent with that poster's hypothesis that later manufactured trucks were easier to update.
- The update appears to work really well. The brake pedal feel is linear and predictable in each instance I've used it since I picked it up. I will continue to monitor it, but so far it is great and almost consistent with gas vehicle's brakes.
- My hypothesis (and to be clear, I am purely speculating and am totally unqualified to make): I think Ford made it to where the traditional brakes engage from the moment you depress the brake pedal and then increase consistently / linearly. I observed that the "regen braking only" bar on the EV coach brakes harder than it did before the TSB with equivilent levels of force. EV coach says its still all regen, but I'm skeptical. When i brake even harder, it will exceed the regen braking bar (go outside of the green to the gray part), but there is absolutely no noticeable feel (like the traditional brakes are engaging) when that happens. If that's the case, it means that braking is smoother because it doesn't switch from one system to another, just uses them both at varying levels. That smooths out the transition, but I suppose could mean slightly less regen at light braking and slight increase in brake pad wear over time. If that's the case, it's a tradeoff I'll gladly make. Again, I could be totally wrong, just how it feels.
Overall 10/10 service and outcome. Very happy customer.
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"hypothesis that later manufactured trucks were easier to update"..... mine is an early build, September 2021 and had no problem taking the update.
Well had my hybrid done last Thursday the day of the big storm . Drive my Maverick home and was parked for 3 days . Deiced it on Sunday and have driven it the last 4 days . My brakes were real bad Now from going regenerative to hydraulic brakes he's still grab but not as bad not as often but nowhere near 100% I was told there's two fixes one is the computer fixed something has to be downloaded and the second one is some kind of module that has to be installed. Will notify my dealer tomorrow about continue problem and still get three tries they have not accepted my roll up tonneau cover . Can you say BOZO old joke !!!!
I have found that the issue comes about when you’re doing light brake pedal presses, similar to creeping - stop and go - in a drive through line, or navigating at creep speed in a parking lot. There comes a point where, after cycling the pedal about 3 times that the vehicle response to the next pedal press is no increase in vehicle stopping force. So you push harder, which must advance into full hydraulic brakes, wherein the brakes grab hard, and sometimes the vehicle exhibits an underhood clunk - a bit scary there. I certainly now know to keep my distance from people/cars/solid objects when in gear and creeping. I also have a 2014 Fusion hybrid, which has a high brake pedal position and touchy brakes - esp when new, but never did anything like this.
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OK, guys. I understand that's how it is SUPPOSED to work, but I also believe that Ford did not INTEND for the brakes to be grabby at all. I was just trying to share a work-around that appears to prevent the "grabby brakes" in my Maverick. Since I started turning OFF the AutoHold, I've experienced it exactly zero times. Prior to turning it off, I got it fairly often.
The correlation isn't strong enough to equate to "causation" in my mind, but it seems to be related somehow. Since ALL the braking is computer controlled, and since we're talking about very low speeds here, I was suspicious that one of the sensors in that system might be off calibration slightly, causing AutoHold to engage before it is supposed to do so.
IF that were the case, it could explain both the symptoms I've experienced (grabby brakes at very low speed with AutoHold turned ON), and the reduction in those symptoms when I turned AutoHold OFF.
I'll shut up now, so no need to tell me yet again how wrong I am. For those who can't get in to your service department right away, you might just try this and see if it helps YOUR situation. Perhaps a long shot, but at least for my Maverick it seems to have helped.
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