What battery does what?

[The Real Maverick]

Using Forscan Lite logging function.
Here's my 10 min run into work, 1/3 the time on the highway. Cold day, 25 F, wanted ICE running more in an example of not mattering for charging, nor highway speeds.
SOC started 50%, 11.5 V, before engaging the HVB in On & Ready mode.
SOC ended 52%, 11.8 V (after some surface discharge holding down brake, but not totally accurate)

Starting & continuing charge rate:
15A drop to 10A in about 7 sec,
10A drop to 7A abouts 17 sec,
7A drop to 5A abouts 44 sec,
5A drop to 3A abouts 176 sec, almost 3 min,
3A drop to 2A abouts 109 sec, with strange spike up to 10A about 344 sec in, for only ms, when SOC jumped up,
2A drop to 1A abouts 250 sec, tad over 4 min.
Ending charge rate between 1 & 2, guessing abouts 1.5A.

If BMS was basing this charging method on 50% SOC it was aware of, and starting voltage 11.5, it really seems it should have kept the higher charging rate for much longer. (most of that happened before I started moving!)
Cold battery factor in algorithm?
Saw the same thing in more pleasant fall days 70 F the whole time.
If anyone wants the raw data, it's got more fields in the log - HVB A/V/SOC, torque Eng/Motor, RPM Eng/Gen/Motor.

Just like mine.

A sulfated battery will not TAKE a charge.

In our cases, it's not a matter of the truck not giving, it is a matter of the battery not taking.

Prove this by using a grid powered charger overnight. It will do between little and zero good.

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[ZABSMAV]

Just like mine.

A sulfated battery will not TAKE a charge.

In our cases, it's not a matter of the truck not giving, it is a matter of the battery not taking.

Prove this by using a grid powered charger overnight. It will do between little and zero good.

Exactly. The problem is that Ford engineering someone thought that trickle charging a flooded lead acid battery (or an AGM battery which is similar technology) would be adequate. They totally botched that. Every Maverick Hybrid owner out there has limited life until their battery is killed by sulfation. I highly doubt that a simple "software update" is going to fix this. I am sure that we will soon hear people with 2025 models chiming in with the deep sleep issue too. Ford has known about this issue for long enough that they should have changed something in the 2025 models, but there has been nothing stated about that in any reviews or publications. The 2025s likely have the same exact system as previous years. Ford needs to announce officially when we can expect to see a recall issued, and our vehicles fixed, and battery replaced. It is chicken crap that the only "official" word from Ford comes from a short message in the FordPass app along with the ridiculous suggestion to simply drive the vehicle more. How about firing the DEI hires in engineering and get some competent people in there that don't put out products with so many issues. Guess QC is a thing of the past.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I almost wonder if they could somehow program the hybrid battery to stay on a little longer after the truck is turned off to top off the 12v. Although I could see that being a safety issue as well. The only other option would be to increase the amps on the DC-DC converter so that you always have a full battery once the truck is shut off.

You can charge a battery only so fast. The dcdc converter can output up to 265 amps which is way to fast.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

It doesn't become oxided. It suffers sulfation.

Chemists define the lead oxidisation process as: “A chemical reaction instigated by the exposure of lead to the atmosphere in which soluble lead compounds such as lead sulphate (PbSO), lead sulphide (PbS) or lead oxides are formed on the surface.

 

[ZABSMAV]

You can charge a battery only so fast. The dcdc converter can output up to 265 amps which is way to fast.

It is highly improbable that it can actually output 12-15vdc at 265 amps. From what I understand it only trickle charges the 12v battery. A 10-12 amp, or 20amp, charge with automatic shutoff at full charge makes more sense.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

It is highly improbable that it can actually output 12-15vdc at 265 amps. From what I understand it only trickle charges the 12v battery. A 10-12 amp, or 20amp, charge with automatic shutoff at full charge makes more sense.

It has been posted by several members that 265 amps is the sustained rating of the dcdc converter. There are several 60 and 40 amp fuses just for heaters. The 12v battery has a 200 amp fuse and the dcdc converter has a 300+ amp fuse. The problem is that the 12v is trickle charged under control of the BMS and as such will need at least 8-10 hours at 1 amp to top off the 12v when the BMS switches to float charge at the usual 80-85% soc.

 

[billpitman]

It has been posted by several members that 265 amps is the sustained rating of the dcdc converter. There are several 60 and 40 amp fuses just for heaters. The 12v battery has a 200 amp fuse and the dcdc converter has a 300+ amp fuse. The problem is that the 12v is trickle charged under control of the BMS and as such will need at least 8-10 hours at 1 amp to top off the 12v when the BMS switches to float charge at the usual 80-85% soc.

I have a 2021 Ford Mach-e, and a 2024 Ford Maverick Hybrid XLT.
From research I’ve done, the 12v charging is handled by the same hardware!
I typically keep the Mach-e plugged in to maintained the HV battery at 85%, which also charge the 12v. Winter mostly.
The Maverick is sometimes plugged in to a Novo 10 12v maintainer. I have only had 1 deep- sleep FordPass notification since May 2024.
The DCDC convertor gets its instructions for how to charge the 12v from the PCM.
My Maverick 12v SOC lately has been in the low 50%’s. It will maybe charge up only 2-4 % within a 30 minute drive….. WHY ISN’T IT BEING TOLD TO CHARGE AT A HIGHER AMP RATE…….? Bill P

 

[Hoagus]

I can almost guarantee that your Maverick is still going into deep sleep if you have a hybrid. Do you ever go out to it and find the interior dome light and headlights dont come on when you open the door?

No, I’ve not noticed that.

 

[ZABSMAV]

I have a 2021 Ford Mach-e, and a 2024 Ford Maverick Hybrid XLT.
From research I’ve done, the 12v charging is handled by the same hardware!
I typically keep the Mach-e plugged in to maintained the HV battery at 85%, which also charge the 12v. Winter mostly.
The Maverick is sometimes plugged in to a Novo 10 12v maintainer. I have only had 1 deep- sleep FordPass notification since May 2024.
The DCDC convertor gets its instructions for how to charge the 12v from the PCM.
My Maverick 12v SOC lately has been in the low 50%’s. It will maybe charge up only 2-4 % within a 30 minute drive….. WHY ISN’T IT BEING TOLD TO CHARGE AT A HIGHER AMP RATE…….? Bill P

Likely because the engineers didn't do their homework. We shouldn't need to hook a battery tender into a car manufactured in 2023 and later. This isn't the 1960s.

 

[ZABSMAV]

It has been posted by several members that 265 amps is the sustained rating of the dcdc converter. There are several 60 and 40 amp fuses just for heaters. The 12v battery has a 200 amp fuse and the dcdc converter has a 300+ amp fuse. The problem is that the 12v is trickle charged under control of the BMS and as such will need at least 8-10 hours at 1 amp to top off the 12v when the BMS switches to float charge at the usual 80-85% soc.

People aren't going to drive 8 to 10 hours to charge their battery. 1 amp is a trickle charge. The battery needs more like a 10 or 15 amp charge, if not 20, to bring it quickly to a full charge.

 

[JacobEleventeen]

You can charge a battery only so fast. The dcdc converter can output up to 265 amps which is way to fast.

Right but a steady say 15amps would easily top off the battery and keep it charged vs say 3amps. From the sound of it it's not pushing enough amps to top off battery between drives.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Right but a steady say 15amps would easily top off the battery and keep it charged vs say 3amps. From the sound of it it's not pushing enough amps to top off battery between drives.

Yes it would charge it quicker but it would overcharge the battery and destroy it that way. "Do not overcharge battery under any circumstance" has become prevalent due to things like thermal runaway of other design types. Until Ford comes up with a way to eliminate the overnight usage which will, at least in mine will lower the soc approximately 0.08-0.12v and I rarely drive 10+ hours I will every 6 to 8 weeks put my 5 amp maintainer on the battery for 5-7 days to allow time for the sulfation and stratification cycles to complete. If one doesn't want to mess with maintainer they can buy a new battery for about $200 every year or two. Most of the problem is caused by the "deep sleep" warning that the battery is getting low instead of just waiting for it to die. I do not get deep sleep messages because I use the earlier no dome light warning to put my maintainer on. EVEN if 12v was fully charged when you shut truck off it apparently would be 0.8-0.12v lower the next am which would slowly lead to sulfation and need maintainer every several months.

 

[The Real Maverick]

Right but a steady say 15amps would easily top off the battery and keep it charged vs say 3amps. From the sound of it it's not pushing enough amps to top off battery between drives.

You're not listening. (Ok, I meant reading.)

The battery will only take / accept / absorb what it needs.

You can't "put" 15 amps into a battery that can't physically accept it.

The batteries are faulty. Not the trucks at this stage.

The trucks may have mis-handled the batteries when new to lead to premature failure, uncertainty there.

But if you attach a 200 amp capable source, the battery is only going to take 1 amp if it is full, or sulfated.

 

[JacobEleventeen]

You're not listening. (Ok, I meant reading.)

The battery will only take / accept / absorb what it needs.

You can't "put" 15 amps into a battery that can't physically accept it.

The batteries are faulty. Not the trucks at this stage.

The trucks may have mis-handled the batteries when new to lead to premature failure, uncertainty there.

But if you attach a 200 amp capable source, the battery is only going to take 1 amp if it is full, or sulfated.

Right I agree with that I meant they need to fix the problem then replace the batteries. Obviously the batteries are a big part of the problem but its going to keep happening if they don't fix the cause of the sulfation.

 

[HeyBales]

The other issue with just why not charge more until it reaches a certain stage - readings of V are not accurate, or is SOC%, as soon as you start charging.
And for decent amount of time afterwards.

Hence the battery sensor tracking what appears to be Amp Hours discharge while key off (and in sleep mode), and Ah charge with key on.
There is no Ah PID for Charge with key off.

Can't get V reading while charging, but can track amps in & out - if you got a good sensor.
I've noticed the 2 PIDS that track that usually were the same with Discharge usually going up a tick 1st, then Charge soon following.
With the cold, Charge is increasing and Discharge is lagging - I think the system knows it's little routine isn't working trying to match charge to discharge, or the morning resting voltage wouldn't keep going down.

Sadly it's not increasing it enough to win the battle on a now problem battery.
I'm wondering how many other vehicles with battery in cabin (would the trunk be considered different I wonder), rely on a very conservative charging logic to avoid potential gas release, and get into same issue.

There have been several posts by those that got better FLA batteries early on, before AGM options were being used, that their new battery started having problems too.
And I've seen at least 2 AGM early adopters report getting back to deep sleep too.

That's not likely a battery issue, that a charging logic issue, or battery sensor, or whatever.

Oh yeah - every BS reset wipes out those counters, and battery days in service. Likely used in algorithm too.

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