Maverick 0-60 times (hybrid / ecoboost)

[fbov]

So you take that curve and add it to the gas motor (2.5L with 155hp) and you get the curve above.

I still don't buy it. Here's why. I've attached a report on engines like the 2.5L hybrid, and excerpted the torque curve. The curve looks like the data you show, and this data is guaranteed to be ICE-only response. It also starts near 1000 RPM with 2/3 of max torque, without the benefit of an electric motor.

Where did you get your data? The turbo curves are spot-on. I haven't seen anything published on Ford's Atkinson curves, with or without EV.

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[jimmy fitzwell]

The only way to settle this is with real live drag races. I think we could pull it off up here. At the Libby Airport. Next summer? I better not lose to a Santa Cruz.

 

[FirstOnRaceDay]

I still don't buy it. Here's why. I've attached a report on engines like the 2.5L hybrid, and excerpted the torque curve. The curve looks like the data you show, and this data is guaranteed to be ICE-only response. It also starts near 1000 RPM with 2/3 of max torque, without the benefit of an electric motor.

Where did you get your data? The turbo curves are spot-on. I haven't seen anything published on Ford's Atkinson curves, with or without EV.

it got the turbo curves from ford and Hyundai spec sheets.

however the Ford hybrid I made.
using the 2.5 from the fusion (might not be EXACTLY the same but close)
Adjusted the whole curve up to match peak numbers of the n/a motor.
then added the values of an electric motor curve (100% torque at 0-2500rpm then fading to ~40% at red line) and adjusted the electric peak to Match total output (200lbft)

 

[vezpa]

I already read somewhere the 2.0 4x4 0-60 will be est at 7.9sec A truck with the tow package may be a little faster with the different rear gear.

.

 

[zackmd1]

I already read somewhere the 2.0 4x4 0-60 will be est at 7.9sec A truck with the tow package may be a little faster with the different rear gear.

.

I think that publication got the hybrid 0-60 and 2.0 0-60s confused. No logical reason why the 2.0 in the Maverick would be over 1.5 sec slower then the bronco sport given near identical weight, power, tire size, etc…

 

[fbov]

however the Ford hybrid I made.

Well... my understanding is the traction motor is rated at 177 lb-ft. torque, not 40.
Fusion has the same Gen 3 2.0L HF35 as my old C-Max. Escape is 2.5L HF45, Gen 4. (Maverick would be 4+?) I really hoped you'd found current model data!

Thinking about it, I don't think you can combine a hybrid's motor and engine output to a single curve because their RPMs are independent of one another.
- EV RPM are tied to road speed through the differential gearing
- ICE RPM can vary from 0 to redline at any road speed, as determined by a control system responding to driver inputs.
- how does one account for the output of the second motor/generator?

 

[spacemancraig]

Well... my understanding is the traction motor is rated at 177 lb-ft. torque, not 40.
Fusion has the same Gen 3 2.0L HF35 as my old C-Max. Escape is 2.5L HF45, Gen 4. (Maverick would be 4+?) I really hoped you'd found current model data!

Thinking about it, I don't think you can combine a hybrid's motor and engine output to a single curve because their RPMs are independent of one another.
- EV RPM are tied to road speed through the differential gearing
- ICE RPM can vary from 0 to redline at any road speed, as determined by a control system responding to driver inputs.
- how does one account for the output of the second motor/generator?

Traction motor?

 

[oljackfrost]

Traction motor?

The main electric motor in a hybrid.

 

[FirstOnRaceDay]

Well... my understanding is the traction motor is rated at 177 lb-ft. torque, not 40.
Fusion has the same Gen 3 2.0L HF35 as my old C-Max. Escape is 2.5L HF45, Gen 4. (Maverick would be 4+?) I really hoped you'd found current model data!

Thinking about it, I don't think you can combine a hybrid's motor and engine output to a single curve because their RPMs are independent of one another.
- EV RPM are tied to road speed through the differential gearing
- ICE RPM can vary from 0 to redline at any road speed, as determined by a control system responding to driver inputs.
- how does one account for the output of the second motor/generator?

That’s why I LOVE looking at wheel torque/ HP vs Wheel speed.

 

[fbov]

That’s why I LOVE looking at...

Glad you're happy, now please tell us what this is, where it came from, and what you think it means.

 

[FirstOnRaceDay]

Glad you're happy, now please tell us what this is, where it came from, and what you think it means.

It’s wheel torque vs wheel speed.
I originally started doing this for the ford Lightning.because electric vehicles don’t have a transmission. (Most of the time). So you can’t compare a dyno of 4th gear vs an EV. (Same goes for hybrids)

the wheel torque is calculated by finding the speed at each given RPM. Then finding the lbft at the crank for each speed. Then multiply that by the transmission and differential ratio.
It’s a lot of work.

but it’s the torque you feel while driving full throttle. (Assuming 100% drive train efficiency)

But you can see the difference between the Hyundai and ford. Each gear change causes the torque to drop. While the CVT in the ford with the electric motor keeps the torque higher and smoother.

same goes for HP.

I also think the turbo ford will be a lot smoother to drive than the turbo Hyundai.

 

[fbov]

Thank you. I'm familiar with this kind of modeling, so let me tell you what else I see. I don't know for certain what drivetrains these represent, but the general pattern is consistent. I would call this a drag race analysis: straight "floor it off the line." You run up the maximum torque or HP curve in 1st gear, then shift to successively higher gears. Undulations are shift points where RPM and output drop. Torque falls because it includes a decreasing numerical gear ratio at each shift.

This works for any system where the power plant and the road are mechanically connected, virtually anything with a geared transmission be they EV, hybrid or conventional powerplant. Of the four drivetrains, three are geared so the model is valid. It's also valid with any EV. Assuming the fourth is Escape Hybrid, such a model is not valid.

Hybrid engine RPM is not linked to road speed, so relating ICE output to a "speed" axis is meaningless. Traction motor is linked directly to the road, but the ICE is connected through the power split device, and that changes everything. The ICE can run at peak torque RPM at any road speed. EV torque is first current-limited, then RPM limited, but ICE speed and so ICE torque can remain constant as you speed up.

You can understand why it needs a sophisticated control system...

 

[spacemancraig]

The main electric motor in a hybrid.

Why do you call it that?

I may be misunderstanding it's operation but that name makes no sense.

 

[oljackfrost]

Why do you call it that?

I may be misunderstanding it's operation but that name makes no sense.

I think it is an old technical term for the type of electric motor.

 

[Darnon]

As opposed to the other electric motor (there are 2) in an Aisin-style eCVT which functions as starter, generator, and overdrives the ICE engine input speed but doesn't provide independent motive force.

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