Let’s try to fix this major hybrid issue together

[1Guy1Truck]

Just thought I'd let you know I have a 2020 Escape HEV and I discovered this same issue by accident one day. That was before they replaced the flywheel/clutch damper at 23,000 miles. After the damper was replaced and everything was reprogrammed per the latest greatest update, it does exactly the same thing. Dealer is aware, Ford is aware, nobody has a fix. They feel it's more software related than mechanical, but must not be a priority for Ford to fix, plus it only happens in N. Of course I haven't had my vehicle since the end of January because I have the dreaded Deep Sleep Mode issue with the 12v battery going dead overnight. But that's another story of Ford not having it's priorities in order since that issue has been going on since the 4G Escape hit the street 3 years ago and it's still going on with the Escape and the Maverick.

Wow! I’m still waiting to get this fixed. My dealer doesn’t have a loaner, waiting since I made this post 2 months ago.

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[BankableWhee]

@1Guy1Truck how is your Maverick performing since your repairs? I just got my Maverick back from my dealership’s service division for the same/similar transmission rattle issue last Friday, and when I put the truck in drive this morning, no rattle, but I’m still experiencing that weird sensation where my foot is firmly depressing the brake pedal, but the truck feels like it is attempting to surge forward, causing a very slight forward-and-backward motion. I’ll probably report it to my dealer if I experience it again, but have you had a similar issue since getting yours back? I’m glad that the rattling is gone, but just concerned that it feels like the engine is still transmitting power through the trans when the brakes are engaged.

I’ll be sure to post my after-service narrative sometime so the forum can see how my dealership was also able to troubleshoot the issue.

 

[1Guy1Truck]

@1Guy1Truck how is your Maverick performing since your repairs? I just got my Maverick back from my dealership’s service division for the same/similar transmission rattle issue last Friday, and when I put the truck in drive this morning, no rattle, but I’m still experiencing that weird sensation where my foot is firmly depressing the brake pedal, but the truck feels like it is attempting to surge forward, causing a very slight forward-and-backward motion. I’ll probably report it to my dealer if I experience it again, but have you had a similar issue since getting yours back? I’m glad that the rattling is gone, but just concerned that it feels like the engine is still transmitting power through the trans when the brakes are engaged.

I’ll be sure to post my after-service narrative sometime so the forum can see how my dealership was also able to troubleshoot the issue.

The issue I’ve had is what I had described above when it’s in neutral and the gas engine running. It makes a similar, but much less severe rattle. One time it even throttled up on its own while in neutral as if I was pressing on the gas pedal. I have the same surge you described as well. I’ve been waiting for my dealer to get a loaner for the last 2 months so they can look at this issue. I’ve come to accept the quality of this truck is sub par at best and just hoping it doesn’t leave me stranded. I’ll be taking a long look at the new Tacoma when the prices are released. Let me know how you do with yours.

 

[BankableWhee]

Here is the write-up from my Maverick's visit to the dealership's service center. I thought I would post this in case anybody else has similar issues and wants to provide their service technicians some extra info. I left copies of the TSBs for the flywheel damper in the truck for the service techs to reference, and I was surprised to find out that my truck had a different issue! They were very thorough and they did a great job addressing the issues that I encountered.

Customer states that while in idle in reverse or drive with the engine running after cold start there is a chatter noise present. Customer road tested vehicle with lead tech but vehicle had already been warmed up. Concern was not verified. Let vehicle sit overnight and rechecked for concern in the morning. Cold start vehicle and placed vehicle in drive and reverse. Verified customer's concern. Rattle type noise present like nuts and bolts in a tin can. Concern only happens in reverse or drive. Concern goes away when in park or neutral. Also engine needs to be running. Performed NVH diagnosis. Pinpointed noise loudest at transmission at the outboard side of trans near driver's wheel area. Lead tech also confirmed noise in that area. Check OASIS. Found no applicable information. Check for possible past reports. Did find 2 reports stating concerns with the flywheel damper but noise was not really pinpointed to that area. FDRS hook-up. Self test for possible codes. Passed. No DTC's present. Took a fluid sample. Verified some metallic flakes present in the fluid. Contacted hotline for assistance. Hotline stated to remove trans and inspect for any visual concerns with the flywheel damper. If no concerns present to continue WITH DISASSEMBLY AND INSPECTION OF THE TRANSMISSION. Verified noise and isolated to transmission. Removed engine assembly and separated the transmission then inspected the damper, no damage to damper. Internal transmission fault. LTIS unit replacement. Installed replacement unit and replaced one time use hardware. Programmed sobdmc trans strategy and ID. Refilled coolant in engine and refilled coolant in electric control system. A.C. refrigerant was slightly below capacity, .2# was added to bring charge to full. Tested operation of trans, post repair road test. Final quick test-pass.

Customer states when hands are on steering wheel feels a shudder from the engine when gas engine turns off when coming to a stop. Performed road test. Did not verify concern. Spoke with lead tech who road tested with the customer. Lead tech and customer could not get concern to happen. Performed a visual inspection. No visual concerns present. Check OASIS. Found no applicable information. FDRS hook-up. Check for possible misfire codes. System passed. No DTC's in memory. Check more 6 data. Found no data out of spec. Check concern the following morning. Cold started the vehicle and placed vehicle in drive with foot on brake while engine was running and verified the vehicle wanted to lurch forward a few times as if the trans was coming in and out of gear. Transmission will need to be removed and disassembled for inspection. Concern may be related to trans concern.

I am very glad that my truck's service technicians were so thorough with investigating the transmission issues. I have been very satisfied with my dealership throughout my whole purchasing and ownership process. I highly recommend giving your service techs as much info as possible - I sent the lead tech a video where I captured the noise my truck was making, and it helped him a lot to understand what I was experiencing because we could not get the truck to replicate the noise in the initial road test.

 

[1Guy1Truck]

Here is the write-up from my Maverick's visit to the dealership's service center. I thought I would post this in case anybody else has similar issues and wants to provide their service technicians some extra info. I left copies of the TSBs for the flywheel damper in the truck for the service techs to reference, and I was surprised to find out that my truck had a different issue! They were very thorough and they did a great job addressing the issues that I encountered.

Customer states that while in idle in reverse or drive with the engine running after cold start there is a chatter noise present. Customer road tested vehicle with lead tech but vehicle had already been warmed up. Concern was not verified. Let vehicle sit overnight and rechecked for concern in the morning. Cold start vehicle and placed vehicle in drive and reverse. Verified customer's concern. Rattle type noise present like nuts and bolts in a tin can. Concern only happens in reverse or drive. Concern goes away when in park or neutral. Also engine needs to be running. Performed NVH diagnosis. Pinpointed noise loudest at transmission at the outboard side of trans near driver's wheel area. Lead tech also confirmed noise in that area. Check OASIS. Found no applicable information. Check for possible past reports. Did find 2 reports stating concerns with the flywheel damper but noise was not really pinpointed to that area. FDRS hook-up. Self test for possible codes. Passed. No DTC's present. Took a fluid sample. Verified some metallic flakes present in the fluid. Contacted hotline for assistance. Hotline stated to remove trans and inspect for any visual concerns with the flywheel damper. If no concerns present to continue WITH DISASSEMBLY AND INSPECTION OF THE TRANSMISSION. Verified noise and isolated to transmission. Removed engine assembly and separated the transmission then inspected the damper, no damage to damper. Internal transmission fault. LTIS unit replacement. Installed replacement unit and replaced one time use hardware. Programmed sobdmc trans strategy and ID. Refilled coolant in engine and refilled coolant in electric control system. A.C. refrigerant was slightly below capacity, .2# was added to bring charge to full. Tested operation of trans, post repair road test. Final quick test-pass.

Customer states when hands are on steering wheel feels a shudder from the engine when gas engine turns off when coming to a stop. Performed road test. Did not verify concern. Spoke with lead tech who road tested with the customer. Lead tech and customer could not get concern to happen. Performed a visual inspection. No visual concerns present. Check OASIS. Found no applicable information. FDRS hook-up. Check for possible misfire codes. System passed. No DTC's in memory. Check more 6 data. Found no data out of spec. Check concern the following morning. Cold started the vehicle and placed vehicle in drive with foot on brake while engine was running and verified the vehicle wanted to lurch forward a few times as if the trans was coming in and out of gear. Transmission will need to be removed and disassembled for inspection. Concern may be related to trans concern.

I am very glad that my truck's service technicians were so thorough with investigating the transmission issues. I have been very satisfied with my dealership throughout my whole purchasing and ownership process. I highly recommend giving your service techs as much info as possible - I sent the lead tech a video where I captured the noise my truck was making, and it helped him a lot to understand what I was experiencing because we could not get the truck to replicate the noise in the initial road test.

Sounds like a great service department. You’re lucky, they are hard to find.

 

[GPSMan]

@BankableWhee great report. Thanks for typing all that in.

My truck has those symptoms but it continues to get me to work every day.

My dilemma is: take it in now or closer to 3/36,000 miles? I mean, it sounds like a new transmission is needed. What's the harm in waiting?

Wouldn't ya like a new transmission at 30k miles vs. 5k miles?

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Sounds like a great service department. You’re lucky, they are hard to find.

Looks to me like Ford may be justified in allocating bonus allocations to this dealer.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

@BankableWhee great report. Thanks for typing all that in.

My truck has those symptoms but it continues to get me to work every day.

My dilemma is: take it in now or closer to 3/36,000 miles? I mean, it sounds like a new transmission is needed. What's the harm in waiting?

Wouldn't ya like a new transmission at 30k miles vs. 5k miles?

Just a thought.... Can you see on your equipment if, when this is happening, is the generator switching on/off or perhaps the load request remains higher than can be accepted by the charging circuit? Also I noticed in one of your videos that when the ice started the rpm jumped (almost instantaneously?) to 806, if I remember correctly, (probably a function of scan rate but even considering that it was impressive).

 

[GPSMan]

In mine the shake and rattle noise is consistently when the engine shuts off.
Not every shut off, but at least 25% of the shut offs. A dealer may not experience it right away, but almost guaranteed they will in a 15 minute drive. The "problem" may be getting them to dedicate time to just driving the darn thing. One place told me they are only authorized to drive around the block which is

So if the shake and rattle isn't apparent enough now ( I've been to a dealer one time only ) maybe my handing them a transmission in pieces will be apparent enough.

 

[1Guy1Truck]

In mine the shake and rattle noise is consistently when the engine shuts off.
Not every shut off, but at least 25% of the shut offs. A dealer may not experience it right away, but almost guaranteed they will in a 15 minute drive. The "problem" may be getting them to dedicate time to just driving the darn thing. One place told me they are only authorized to drive around the block which is

So if the shake and rattle isn't apparent enough now ( I've been to a dealer one time only ) maybe my handing them a transmission in pieces will be apparent enough.

My dealer had my truck for 5 weeks before they even looked at it.

 

[georgeb]

Here is the write-up from my Maverick's visit to the dealership's service center. I thought I would post this in case anybody else has similar issues and wants to provide their service technicians some extra info. I left copies of the TSBs for the flywheel damper in the truck for the service techs to reference, and I was surprised to find out that my truck had a different issue! They were very thorough and they did a great job addressing the issues that I encountered.

Customer states that while in idle in reverse or drive with the engine running after cold start there is a chatter noise present. Customer road tested vehicle with lead tech but vehicle had already been warmed up. Concern was not verified. Let vehicle sit overnight and rechecked for concern in the morning. Cold start vehicle and placed vehicle in drive and reverse. Verified customer's concern. Rattle type noise present like nuts and bolts in a tin can. Concern only happens in reverse or drive. Concern goes away when in park or neutral. Also engine needs to be running. Performed NVH diagnosis. Pinpointed noise loudest at transmission at the outboard side of trans near driver's wheel area. Lead tech also confirmed noise in that area. Check OASIS. Found no applicable information. Check for possible past reports. Did find 2 reports stating concerns with the flywheel damper but noise was not really pinpointed to that area. FDRS hook-up. Self test for possible codes. Passed. No DTC's present. Took a fluid sample. Verified some metallic flakes present in the fluid. Contacted hotline for assistance. Hotline stated to remove trans and inspect for any visual concerns with the flywheel damper. If no concerns present to continue WITH DISASSEMBLY AND INSPECTION OF THE TRANSMISSION. Verified noise and isolated to transmission. Removed engine assembly and separated the transmission then inspected the damper, no damage to damper. Internal transmission fault. LTIS unit replacement. Installed replacement unit and replaced one time use hardware. Programmed sobdmc trans strategy and ID. Refilled coolant in engine and refilled coolant in electric control system. A.C. refrigerant was slightly below capacity, .2# was added to bring charge to full. Tested operation of trans, post repair road test. Final quick test-pass.

Customer states when hands are on steering wheel feels a shudder from the engine when gas engine turns off when coming to a stop. Performed road test. Did not verify concern. Spoke with lead tech who road tested with the customer. Lead tech and customer could not get concern to happen. Performed a visual inspection. No visual concerns present. Check OASIS. Found no applicable information. FDRS hook-up. Check for possible misfire codes. System passed. No DTC's in memory. Check more 6 data. Found no data out of spec. Check concern the following morning. Cold started the vehicle and placed vehicle in drive with foot on brake while engine was running and verified the vehicle wanted to lurch forward a few times as if the trans was coming in and out of gear. Transmission will need to be removed and disassembled for inspection. Concern may be related to trans concern.

I am very glad that my truck's service technicians were so thorough with investigating the transmission issues. I have been very satisfied with my dealership throughout my whole purchasing and ownership process. I highly recommend giving your service techs as much info as possible - I sent the lead tech a video where I captured the noise my truck was making, and it helped him a lot to understand what I was experiencing because we could not get the truck to replicate the noise in the initial road test.

so LTIS unit means - they replaced your transmission?

does LTIS mean you received a lightly used replacement trans?

 

[BankableWhee]

so LTIS unit means - they replaced your transmission?

does LTIS mean you received a lightly used replacement trans?

I am not sure…
I am uncertain if they replaced the whole unit, or if they replaced only a piece of the transmission. I will ask.

 

[BankableWhee]

so LTIS unit means - they replaced your transmission?

does LTIS mean you received a lightly used replacement trans?

I checked my invoice, and it indicates that the whole automatic transmission assembly was replaced. Here is a picture for your reference:

 

[Excaped]

@BankableWhee great report. Thanks for typing all that in.

My truck has those symptoms but it continues to get me to work every day.

My dilemma is: take it in now or closer to 3/36,000 miles? I mean, it sounds like a new transmission is needed. What's the harm in waiting?

Wouldn't ya like a new transmission at 30k miles vs. 5k miles?

GPSMan,

Just thought I'd share a somewhat similar experience I'm having with my Ford Escape HEV. Before you wait until the end of the 3/36 warranty, check the lemon laws in your state. I waited until almost 2 years/24000 miles before I took mine in for the flywheel damper and also the Deep Sleep mode message/12v battery issue. Living in a warm climate, the noise was only an issue a couple times a year and the Deep Sleep mode issue was well documented with no real fix from Ford. First they did the software update for the flywheel rattle which didn't fix the noise and they did a software update for the Deep Sleep issue. When my car went in, it was covered by the lemon law of my state, Ford released it back to me with the same problems. I took it back the very same day, but since a new RO was created, my lemon law rights expired at the end of the first repair. My car has now been in the shop 165 days, they've replaced every possible module and will now be replacing the HVB. Nothing has fixed the problem with the Deep Sleep/12v battery issue, although the flywheel damper did take care of the rattle noise. Get the stuff documented early on just in case you need to invoke the lemon law before it expires in your state. I think ultimately Ford will make it right with my vehicle since as of this writing they have put over $24,000 in parts/labor into the vehicle and it's still not fixed. Just a suggestion ....

 

[maverick4natic]

Great...

So Flywheel damper?

https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/2023-hybrid-xlt-cold-start-rattling-vibration.36906/

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