Hybrid power train and air conditioning?

[Maverick-xv]

I respond only because you clearly know it's a hybrid, yet you talk about conventional powertrains, seemingly confusing the 12v chassis battery with the HVB, and making points based on these incorrect assumptions.

My original response was about claims that all modern ICE cars have AC compressor running all the time when engine is stopped. I added "non-Hybrid" to the post to clarify what I am referring to. I had 2 BEV, so I know about many things related to tech used in EV.

Hybrid is the way to go for me as it resolves the negatives BEV have when it comes to long distance travel and ICE poor efficiency in local traffic. And long distance travel was the ending of second BEV for me, first one did not even had fast charging capabilities. BEV are great for commuting though. But these days we do not even commute much with remote working at home. Ah, and 12V battery on BEVs sucks, but it is another story. I just hope 12V battery duty cycle it is not the same as BEV on the Hybrid. If it does though, it is possible to correct with drop in replacement Lithium Phosphate 12V battery with BMS ~$300.

So yes, I am a Ford Maverick Hybrid fan!

I should not even respond to the "I thought all modern AC systems run off the alternator." as anyone with little car knowledge knows AC does not run of alternator. But it never late to learn for anybody.

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[theek]

Except when they do.

 

[Maverick-xv]

Except when they do.

Except when they do not. Sorry, but you are spreading lies and full of hot air. Honda never had electric or combo AC compressor in Non-Hybrid CRV. Honda is not good with Hybrids either and way behind with BEVs. Why do not you go spread some more boloney on CRV forum or they banned you already? The only good thing Honda is doing - honoring their recall of failed AC compressor clutches (only electrical component in compressor) replacement on out of warranty CRVs. My ICE HVAC running forever when engine stopped, only problem the fan is pushing "no cold" air around after a few minutes. That is why you are interested in Maverick Hybrid, as Honda has nothing to offer to even compare. Honda even managed to screw up McLaren F1 racing team with their horrible engines.

 

[Wrench77]

I read on Prodemand about the 2020 Ford Escape Hybrid’s operation of the A/C compressor and it uses both the low voltage (12 to 16) and the high voltage (170 to 350) if I remember the numbers right on the numbers right. This system should be the same as the Maverick. The compressor is still mounted to the right side of the engine front of vehicle but has no mechanical link to the engine. I think they did this for space issues, ease of manufacturing, and possibly noise. It doesn’t go into full detail about its operation but I’ll try to dig up more. Not sure if it runs high voltage in electric only mode and 12 when the engine is running or what.

 

[Darnon]

There's probably some 12V for control, but switching between HV and 12V to run the compressor would make no sense since the 12V power is just stepped down from the HV.

 

[Maverick-xv]

There's probably some 12V for control, but switching between HV and 12V to run the compressor would make no sense since the 12V power is just stepped down from the HV.

When A/C compressor is operating, it would also run 12V fans on condenser and cabin and bunch of other stuff that controls temperature settings, cabin fan speed and etc.

 

[oljackfrost]

Except when they do not. Sorry, but you are spreading lies and full of hot air. Honda CRV never had electric or combo AC compressor on CRV. Honda is not good with Hybrids either and way behind with BEVs. Why do not you go spread some more boloney on CRV forum or they banned you already? The only good thing Honda is doing - honoring their recall of failed AC compressor clutches (only electrical component in compressor) replacement on out of warranty CRVs. My ICE HVAC running forever when engine stopped, only problem the fan is pushing "no cold" air around after a few minutes. That is why you are interested in Maverick Hybrid, as Honda has nothing to offer to even compare. Honda even managed to screw up McLaren F1 racing team with their horrible engines.

Don’t know about current Honda’s, but older hybrids were not set up like Ford and Toyota; the electric motor was between the engine and transmission and was only used as a power assist. This allowed for a smaller gas engine that could give better fuel economy. So in Honda hybrids the air conditioning was conventional running off the accessory belt of the gas engine.

 

[Maverick-xv]

In general, in order to move from belt driven A/C compressor - AC (alternating current) motor and relatively large battery are needed, There is no AC in 12V DC (direct current) car systems. So it would require an inverter. Hybrid has inverter by design and relatively large HV battery, so making A/C compressor driven by the electric AC motor was relatively simple to implement.

 

[fbov]

There's probably some 12V for control,

When A/C compressor is operating, it would also run 12V fans on condenser and cabin and bunch of other stuff that controls temperature settings, cabin fan speed and etc.

This is exactly correct. In any car offering conventional and hybrid drivetrains, commonality is high past the drivetrain. The 12v system doesn't care if it it's powered by an alternator or a DC-to-DC converter, and it won't miss the engine-starting load spike.

Don’t know about current Honda’s, but older hybrids were not set up like Ford and Toyota; the electric motor was between the engine and transmission and was only used as a power assist. ...

There are many hybrid drivetrain layouts. You've described my wife's Hyundai Sonata Hybrid layout, which retains a conventional transmission. You're right that early hybrids were "weak" in the sense of low-power, low(er) voltage EV systems, but that's not intrinsic. The Sonata can EV very nicely, even if it's limited to 3,000 RPM.

The newest Honda CR-V Hybrid is kind of neat!

 

[Maverick-xv]

The newest Honda CR-V Hybrid is kind of neat!

Thanks for posting,
OMG, I am glad Ford and others do not use yet another monumental engineering nightmare from Honda! This is the eCVT you do not want in your Hybrid! lol

 

[Tennessee]

my 2020 Hybrid got the best mileage during the Hot summer months. I can not see, nor did I see anything near the mileage decrease talked about here. Winter, yes I would go from 53ish mpg to 48 mpg in the winter. I wouldn't worry about AC effects on mileage, it'll be next to nothing.

I drive a fusion car for work. My best mileage is in hot weather, I assume because frictional resistance and all the moving parts is lower. The ice also is not running rich as often to compensate a cold engine. I've noticed an AC effect on mileage, but only early in the fuel tank cycle, when it is more noticeable.

 

[oljackfrost]

Thanks for posting,
OMG, I am glad Ford and others do not use yet another monumental engineering nightmare from Honda! This is the eCVT you do not want in your Hybrid! lol

Although after watching the video I can see the beauty of the engineering, it seems so much more complex than the Ford and Toyota eCVT transmissions (watched the Weber University videos on those). I’ll take simple.

 

[Tennessee]

This is exactly correct. In any car offering conventional and hybrid drivetrains, commonality is high past the drivetrain. The 12v system doesn't care if it it's powered by an alternator or a DC-to-DC converter, and it won't miss the engine-starting load spike.


There are many hybrid drivetrain layouts. You've described my wife's Hyundai Sonata Hybrid layout, which retains a conventional transmission. You're right that early hybrids were "weak" in the sense of low-power, low(er) voltage EV systems, but that's not intrinsic. The Sonata can EV very nicely, even if it's limited to 3,000 RPM.

The newest Honda CR-V Hybrid is kind of neat!

Set up a lot like a diesel-electric train!

 

[Tennessee]

Although after watching the video I can see the beauty of the engineering, it seems so much more complex than the Ford and Toyota eCVT transmissions (watched the Weber University videos on those). I’ll take simple.

One advantage is that planetary gears, which have more friction, are avoided.

 

[Maverick-xv]

One advantage is that planetary gears, which have more friction, are avoided.

Minor disadvantage: number of gears reduction is almost non-existent.
Major disadvantage: Engine can only provide traction power at final drive ratio (kind of stuck in the top gear), so no direct assist at lower speeds (only through small 100hp generator); increased complexity; presence of clutch (introduces dirt wear byproduct to the oil).

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