Help Pls. - Question re. Rear End Toe Alignment & Tire Wear

[MAVXLT23_FTW]

I have a 2023 XLT Hybrid with ~23k miles on it. The OEM tires had ~20k miles on them (I swap on snow tires in the winter months) when I had to replace them due to uneven wear on the two rear tires. The outside shoulder was bald, and the inside was at ~4/32.

When I had the new tires installed, I asked them to check the alignment. It was slightly out of alignment in the front, but total toe in the rear appears to be off somewhat significantly.

The alignment shop (Townfair Tire, not a no-name shop) said there was no adjustment for the rear toe and that it was fine.

I took it to the dealer, because I know the car has never been in an accident and if it can't be adjusted it seems like it would have been off from the factory. They acknowledged no damage to the back end but said it's nbd. They gave me a bunch of what felt like contradictory explanations (Ex. they fixed the front alignment, which was probably contributing, but say the rear toe isn't a problem even though it's much further off of spec) and it felt like they were just trying to talk their way out of doing anything. FYI I have ~6mo left on my bumper-to-bumper warranty.

I don't want to burn through a set of tires every 20k mi but I'm not familiar enough with this to argue the point with the dealer further.

Are these measurements normal?

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[Toadhopper1]

I've done alignments for 20 plus years

Rear toe is not tha bad and really don't see a wear issue
How often do you rote your tires

 

[MAVXLT23_FTW]

Thanks @Toadhopper1 I rotate them roughly every 10k miles, or twice so far

 

[Chops]

I have a 2023 XLT Hybrid with ~23k miles on it. The OEM tires had ~20k miles on them (I swap on snow tires in the winter months) when I had to replace them due to uneven wear on the two rear tires. The outside shoulder was bald, and the inside was at ~4/32.

When I had the new tires installed, I asked them to check the alignment. It was slightly out of alignment in the front, but total toe in the rear appears to be off somewhat significantly.

The alignment shop (Townfair Tire, not a no-name shop) said there was no adjustment for the rear toe and that it was fine.

I took it to the dealer, because I know the car has never been in an accident and if it can't be adjusted it seems like it would have been off from the factory. They acknowledged no damage to the back end but said it's nbd. They gave me a bunch of what felt like contradictory explanations (Ex. they fixed the front alignment, which was probably contributing, but say the rear toe isn't a problem even though it's much further off of spec) and it felt like they were just trying to talk their way out of doing anything. FYI I have ~6mo left on my bumper-to-bumper warranty.

I don't want to burn through a set of tires every 20k mi but I'm not familiar enough with this to argue the point with the dealer further.

Are these measurements normal?

Do you have AWD or FWD? If it is obvious - sorry for a dumb question.

 

[MAVXLT23_FTW]

@Chops It's FWD. The Hybrid wasn't available in AWD for the 2023 model year (unfortunately)

 

[notfast]

Rear toe is not tha bad

I agree. I've purposefully bent the torsion beams on other FWD vehicles to add rear toe. This was more for track handling though.

Are these measurements normal?

Typical tire shop alignment. Not anything out of the ordinary. In fact, I was the fringe case where I would adjust everything until it was in the center of the acceptable range and consistent on both sides. Most alignment techs will just adjust things until it is green on both sides and then make sure the steering wheel is level.

Looking at the Ford parts catalog, it looks like the rear wheel bearing assemblies bolt onto the torsion beam. Since that's the case, you may be able to find some torsion beam alignment shims that will fit. SPC makes torsion beam shims for various makes/models, but they don't list anything for the Maverick or Bronco Sport or Escape specifically, so you may have to start looking at technical drawings to find something that could fit even if it's not intended for the Maverick.

 

[MAVXLT23_FTW]

Thanks @notfast that kind of repair is probably a bit outside of my comfort zone but I'll look into it.

 

[Chops]

Thanks @notfast that kind of repair is probably a bit outside of my comfort zone but I'll look into it.

nf, I was born pigeon toed and had “corrective” surgery back in the 60’s when I was seven. Docs broke the bone, inserted 2 beefy bolts & 4 nuts, and attached a “Forrest Gump” brace to my legs. I’m still pigeon toed lol.

Being pigeon toed never bothered me. I’ve even heard being that may help in certain pro sports. But my shoes have always worn a bit unevenly. If it were possible to rotate them I probably would

My advice to you…your XLT came from the factory “pigeon toed”. Don’t try some mechanical “surgery” to correct. I don’t think your handling will be affected - heck maybe even better for racing as a previous post suggested.

Unlike shoes, however, you can rotate tires. You just will have to do it a bit more often & strategically

 

[RR - All the way]

I know little about alignment as will be evidenced by my questions. First if rear toe cannot be changed, why is it measured? How far from "normal" does rear toe have to be before it has to be somehow corrected. Just curious..............

 

[notfast]

My advice to you…your XLT came from the factory “pigeon toed”. Don’t try some mechanical “surgery” to correct.

I would suggest that @MAVXLT23_FTW watch the tire wear on this set of tires. Some factory tires just don't last that long to begin with.

If he gets close to the expected life, I'd just keep trucking along. If this new set wears out in 20k miles, then I'd suggest looking into correcting the toe, first with shims, if not with a new torsion beam.

Fortunately torsion beams by nature are inexpensive and relatively easy to replace. On the high end, I'd be surprised if it cost more than $2500 out the door if done at a dealership. A more likely cost would be $1500 out the door. The actual part probably costs $700 or so. The expensive part is the labor because everything has to be swapped over.

First if rear toe cannot be changed, why is it measured?

To be sure that it's not completely out-of-whack. It's measured even on vehicles with solid rear axles, where literally nothing is adjustable, unlike some torsion beams that can be adjusted with shims as I mentioned.

Solid rear axles can be misaligned in that it's not mounted square underneath the vehicle, which is usually caused by some sort of other problem (like a collapsed bushing or a bent leaf spring hanger).

How far from "normal" does rear toe have to be before it has to be somehow corrected. Just curious..............

Technically if it's out of spec then it should be corrected or at least investigated to figure out what's causing the issue.

But if nothing is obviously broken or cracked or bent and the toe is just barely out of spec and doesn't cause any other issues like drivability or tire wear, then I'd just keep on motoring on. Chances are it was a manufacturing defect on the torsion beam that slipped through the cracks.

 

[RR - All the way]

I would suggest that @MAVXLT23_FTW watch the tire wear on this set of tires. Some factory tires just don't last that long to begin with.

If he gets close to the expected life, I'd just keep trucking along. If this new set wears out in 20k miles, then I'd suggest looking into correcting the toe, first with shims, if not with a new torsion beam.

Fortunately torsion beams by nature are inexpensive and relatively easy to replace. On the high end, I'd be surprised if it cost more than $2500 out the door if done at a dealership. A more likely cost would be $1500 out the door. The actual part probably costs $700 or so. The expensive part is the labor because everything has to be swapped over.



To be sure that it's not completely out-of-whack. It's measured even on vehicles with solid rear axles, where literally nothing is adjustable, unlike some torsion beams that can be adjusted with shims as I mentioned.

Solid rear axles can be misaligned in that it's not mounted square underneath the vehicle, which is usually caused by some sort of other problem (like a collapsed bushing or a bent leaf spring hanger).



Technically if it's out of spec then it should be corrected or at least investigated to figure out what's causing the issue.

But if nothing is obviously broken or cracked or bent and the toe is just barely out of spec and doesn't cause any other issues like drivability or tire wear, then I'd just keep on motoring on. Chances are it was a manufacturing defect on the torsion beam that slipped through the cracks.

One last dumb question.... Toe on each wheel was in the green at .35 but total toe was -.69. Is there not any correlation between the two individual measurements and the total measurement.

OP wore out tires in 20k miles with one tire rotation. Understand these are factory tires but some are going 50 to 60K. I agree he should watch his new tires and may have to do something. Still seems that it may very well be a Ford manufacturing glitch on this vehicle. Seems a shame that the OP has to live with it.............

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I have 22 lariat hybrid. 45k michelin primacy tires. On michelin Web site it was recommended to rotate at 4k miles or more frequently if uneven wear detected. The tire pressure is hard to inflate equally on the maverick also.

 

[MAVXLT23_FTW]

Thanks @MakinDoForNow I'm fairly confident tire pressure wasn't an issue (assuming the cars onboard gauge is roughly accurate) but the dealer said the same thing that I should rotate my tires every 5k... the Maverick maintenance schedule calls for 10k so that was my rational at the time... I guess I'll try it more frequently.

 

[OleFordGuy]

Thanks @MakinDoForNow I'm fairly confident tire pressure wasn't an issue (assuming the cars onboard gauge is roughly accurate) but the dealer said the same thing that I should rotate my tires every 5k... the Maverick maintenance schedule calls for 10k so that was my rational at the time... I guess I'll try it more frequently.

I guess this will be #3 for more frequent tire rotations. You've probably got a good dealer or at least a good tech giving you that advice. I've used a 3 generation family auto repair shop for so long I can't count the number of years. Their business is probably a 50/50 mix of repair and tire shop. Anyways, they do all my oil changes every 5K and general maintenance items. Any warranty/recall work goes to my ford dealer. Any ways, my shop also rotates/balances the tires every 5K at no charge while changing the oil. They always told me if you want the max life of the tires, check the tire pressure regularly and rotate the tires every 5K. I've got like 30K miles or so on mine now and every time they rotate them, the tread wear is even and the thread depth is almost identical, side to side, front to back, so I assume it's helping.

I know there's lots of different opinions on oil change frequency etc. and that's fine, have no desire to start another oil change frequency war. But for "ME", the manuals recommendations for 10K oil and tire rotations is stupid. And I'm sure there's many that think changing my oil at 5K is stupid, and that's fine. Everyone has the right to do it to their preference.

Just my 2 cents on the subject.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I guess this will be #3 for more frequent tire rotations. You've probably got a good dealer or at least a good tech giving you that advice. I've used a 3 generation family auto repair shop for so long I can't count the number of years. Their business is probably a 50/50 mix of repair and tire shop. Anyways, they do all my oil changes every 5K and general maintenance items. Any warranty/recall work goes to my ford dealer. Any ways, my shop also rotates/balances the tires every 5K at no charge while changing the oil. They always told me if you want the max life of the tires, check the tire pressure regularly and rotate the tires every 5K. I've got like 30K miles or so on mine now and every time they rotate them, the tread wear is even and the thread depth is almost identical, side to side, front to back, so I assume it's helping.

I know there's lots of different opinions on oil change frequency etc. and that's fine, have no desire to start another oil change frequency war. But for "ME", the manuals recommendations for 10K oil and tire rotations is stupid. And I'm sure there's many that think changing my oil at 5K is stupid, and that's fine. Everyone has the right to do it to their preference.

Just my 2 cents on the subject.

Probably should measure tread wear in millimeters every 1k-2k miles and rotate based on wear before it gets astronomically off by 1/32"? Don't worry, I'm gonna stick to every 4-6k miles. And loose 25% of my tread

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