Gas consumption question

[colinl]

The stock AT tires are the biggest cause, congratulations on getting one on the nicest riding Maverick's you can get. The Tremors take potholes and bumps like there barely there.

it's not the biggest cause. it is THE cause. the only other things different about the Tremor are a smaller radiator & front fascia for improved ground clearance, and 1" increased ride height. those have very little to do with the high mpg; it's the tires.

if you put that same 235/65-17 Falken Wildpeak AT3W on another ecoboost awd truck, you will get the same mileage. but you gain a real all-terrain tire with severe winter duty rating, so it is a HUGE upgrade over any of the other Maverick tires when it comes to off-road performance and snow.

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[MakinDoForNow]

I’ve been getting 45 to 50 miles per gallon on my hybrid. I only have 1400 miles and then I get a check engine light. It says there’s something wrong with the exhaust gas circulation system. It’s the dealership and I’m waiting to find out what is wrong with it

Have you been topping tank off? Or stopping at first click off of pump? Might be liquid gas in vapor line?

 

[MakinDoForNow]

it's not the biggest cause. it is THE cause. the only other things different about the Tremor are a smaller radiator & front fascia for improved ground clearance, and 1" increased ride height. those have very little to do with the high mpg; it's the tires.

if you put that same 235/65-17 Falken Wildpeak AT3W on another ecoboost awd truck, you will get the same mileage. but you gain a real all-terrain tire with severe winter duty rating, so it is a HUGE upgrade over any of the other Maverick tires when it comes to off-road performance and snow.

It's 34lbs has 13/32" tread so a lot of extra weight is at perimeter of tire and has high rolling resistance also. Specs =
UNIFORM TIRE QUALITY GRADE (UTQG)
Treadwear660
TractionB
TemperatureB

SECTION WIDTH	225
ASPECT RATIO	65
RIM DIAMETER	17"
OVERALL DIAMETER	28.6"
RIM WIDTH RANGE	6.0" - 8.0"
WEIGHT	34 LBS
TREAD DEPTH	13"
LOAD INDEX	102
LOAD RANGE	SL
MAX PSI	51 PSI
SPEED RATING	UP TO 118 MPH
SIDEWALL DESC.	BLACK SIDE WALL
WARRANTY	55000
VPN	28034775
GTIN	848983019462

 

[colinl]

It's 34lbs has 13/32" tread so a lot of extra weight is at perimeter of tire and has high rolling resistance also.

I had that tire on my first edition. And the difference is enough that I immediately noticed the mpg improvement when I traded it for my current truck, which uses the Michelin Primacy.

I'm not just guessing. I'm sure the Tremor's mpg is caused by the tires.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I had that tire on my first edition. And the difference is enough that I immediately noticed the mpg improvement when I traded it for my current truck, which uses the Michelin Primacy.

I'm not just guessing. I'm sure the Tremor's mpg is caused by the tires.

Check this guy's setup for lightweight wheel/tire combo. Might be an option for mpg savings and look somewhat ok on Tremor.
https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/xlt-lux-bap-hybrid-with-235-55-r19-wildpeak-trails/

 

[jsalewicz]

Have you been topping tank off? Or stopping at first click off of pump? Might be liquid gas in vapor line?

you know come to think of it I did on this tank my2nd. My 17 flex I could always top it off no problem
The truck is currently sitting at almost 3/4 of a tank. It’s at the dealership. They said they looked at today. Couldn’t find anything wrong. They wanted to keep it till Monday and look at it again. for fuel mileage it’s been amazing on this tank it on pace for 700 miles. First tank was 655 with 14 miles till empty.
I’m loving this truck. It’s fun to drive. It kinda like driving a manual with out shifting. I have had 3 Rangers 85 87 99 first 2 were manuals. The braking is like letting off the clutch at a higher rpm and using the engine to brake.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

you know come to think of it I did on this tank my2nd. My 17 flex I could always top it off no problem
The truck is currently sitting at almost 3/4 of a tank. It’s at the dealership. They said they looked at today. Couldn’t find anything wrong. They wanted to keep it till Monday and look at it again. for fuel mileage it’s been amazing on this tank it on pace for 700 miles. First tank was 655 with 14 miles till empty.
I’m loving this truck. It’s fun to drive. It kinda like driving a manual with out shifting. I have had 3 Rangers 85 87 99 first 2 were manuals. The braking is like letting off the clutch at a higher rpm and using the engine to brake.

The manual specifically states that topping of could result in damage. Someone posted about having to replace a sensor or (?) I don't remember. Lots are topping tanks off so maybe your truck was higher in drivers side so maybe you got more gas in and then parked it soon with drivers side lower then pressure in tank pusher fuel in the line next for vapor. Don't know just guessing. Might go away after some driving and code resets who knows. I cannot search right now but maybe you can find it.

 

[710-oil-614]

City MPG takes the largest hit due to the bigger AT tires.

Highway MPG takes the largest hit due to the revised front fascia. All you non-Tremor owners with the butt ugly lower chin...it is there for a reason. Take that bad boy off and highway MPGs will go down significantly - regardless of tires.

 

[710-oil-614]

I had that tire on my first edition. And the difference is enough that I immediately noticed the mpg improvement when I traded it for my current truck, which uses the Michelin Primacy.

I'm not just guessing. I'm sure the Tremor's mpg is caused by the tires.

I mean - the Primacy is an all season tire, one that actually came on my Model 3. It's a fine tire but it isn't a truck tire by any stretch of the imagination. So the difference in MPGs would be quite large with all else equal (ie, the same truck).

A better comparison would be the Pirelli Scorpion ATRs that come with an FX4 (since the gearing is the same as the Tremor) but even those are only 225/65.

The best comparison would be an FX4 with the upgraded wheel package because those come with the identical tires as a Tremor - The Falken AT3W.

If the tires were THE reason as you've pointed out then an FX4 with the upgraded wheel/tire package would have the same MPG ratings as the Tremor, but they are vastly better.

Because the lift (small as it is) and front fascia play a major part in increased drag on the Tremor at speed.

An FX4 and Tremor are probably similar in the City but the Tremor gets smoked by it on the highway for the fascia and the lift - not the tires.

 

[colinl]

City MPG takes the largest hit due to the bigger AT tires.

Highway MPG takes the largest hit due to the revised front fascia. All you non-Tremor owners with the butt ugly lower chin...it is there for a reason. Take that bad boy off and highway MPGs will go down significantly - regardless of tires.

Interesting theory. Since swapping the front end, radiator etc is not practical, all we can do instead is look at Tremors and other AWD Mavericks to compare using aggressive A/T tires (like the Falken Wildpeak AT3W) vs economy-focused A/T (like the Pirelli Scorpion ATR), versus regular all-season tires (Michelin Primacy or Continental Procontact TX).

The best comparison would be an FX4 with the upgraded wheel package because those come with the identical tires as a Tremor - The Falken AT3W.

That does exist. There are most definitely people who have done that swap and most of them do not comment on mileage, but if you ask them, they have lost mpg.

I'm not sure why you quoted my post then ignore the data in it. I had 2 non-Tremor AWD Mavericks and the only meaningful difference in them was the tires. The First Edition, with the Wildpeak AT3W, never got 30mpg on 2 lane highways going 70-75, and I do it all the time in my truck with the Primacy A/S. I don't drive in town enough to keep track of that mileage specifically, I'm at least 90% highway.

The data we need is a Tremor that someone has installed an all-season tire. I have seen people ask that question in FB groups, but I can't recall seeing it here in MTC. I'll open a thread to see if there is anyone.

 

[710-oil-614]

Interesting theory. Since swapping the front end, radiator etc is not practical, all we can do instead is look at Tremors and other AWD Mavericks to compare using aggressive A/T tires (like the Falken Wildpeak AT3W) vs economy-focused A/T (like the Pirelli Scorpion ATR), versus regular all-season tires (Michelin Primacy or Continental Procontact TX).


That does exist. There are most definitely people who have done that swap and most of them do not comment on mileage, but if you ask them, they have lost mpg.

I'm not sure why you quoted my post then ignore the data in it. I had 2 non-Tremor AWD Mavericks and the only meaningful difference in them was the tires. The First Edition, with the Wildpeak AT3W, never got 30mpg on 2 lane highways going 70-75, and I do it all the time in my truck with the Primacy A/S. I don't drive in town enough to keep track of that mileage specifically, I'm at least 90% highway.

The data we need is a Tremor that someone has installed an all-season tire. I have seen people ask that question in FB groups, but I can't recall seeing it here in MTC. I'll open a thread to see if there is anyone.

Because your data is anecdotal and irrelevant - and I've conceded that any vehicle would see an improvement in efficiency if switching from the AT3W to Michelin Primacy.

It is simple physics - a wheel/tire with greater rotational mass and rolling resistance will need the greatest amount of force to accelerate from a stop. Once the wheel is in motion at speed the increased mass and rolling resistance requires far less force than to accelerate from rest.

If you have shopping cart full of groceries or a stroller of kids you exert more force getting moving than you do while at speed. Hence why the heavier tire with greater rolling resistance is most detrimental to city MPG.

Conversely - drag coefficient and aerodynamics of a vehicle matter only when the vehicle is in motion - the greater the speed the more resistance an object faces. The Tremor's lift and revised fascia have a big impact on drag which increases with speed.

Ever hand surf out your window on nice summer day? Is it fun at to do at 20 mph? No way. Is it awesome to do on the highway? That's drag.

You don't have to believe me though - here is the chief engineer for the 2024 Tacoma, Sheldon Brown:

"The air dam is part of the aerodynamic package. These trucks, we've lifted them pretty tall, they got wider, they got a little bit taller, that means our coefficient of drag x area increased which means the drag on the truck increased"

The Tremor does not have the air dam chin which leaves the tires and underbody open to wind, turbulence, and increased drag:

(Tires are completely exposed)

(Front fascia angles up at a 30+ degree angle pushing air down underneath the it):

Compared to an FX4 with the upgraded tire package, you can see where the FX4 has the lower chin which goes out of its way to protect and cover the tires, and the front fascia comes straight down to the chin which significantly reduces the amount of air underneath the vehicle (ie drag):

Tires impact city MPG the most

Drag/aero impact Highway MPG the most.

 

[colinl]

Because your data is anecdotal and irrelevant - and I've conceded that any vehicle would see an improvement in efficiency if switching from the AT3W to Michelin Primacy.

It is simple physics - a wheel/tire with greater rotational mass and rolling resistance will need the greatest amount of force to accelerate from a stop. Once the wheel is in motion at speed the increased mass and rolling resistance requires far less force than to accelerate from rest.

It's real data, and will be even more real with the simple additions of FX4 tire swaps (which have been done, it's just finding the posts) and Tremor swaps to a less aggressive tire - which maybe no one active on MTC has done.

What's anecdotal is your entire post mansplaining aerodynamics and rolling resistance assuming I don't know. I do know. I know the splash guards in front of each tire aren't there for mud. I know that Ford cares enough about aerodynamics to install active grille shutters. And I know that Ford felt they needed to increase the approach angle so they put the high clearance fascia and radiator on the Bronco Sport Badlands, and a version of it on the Maverick Tremor. In the case of the Tremor, the main effect to me is going to be ensuring that your rip your rear bumper off, since the departure angle hasn't changed from a regular Maverick (and it's pretty bad for real off-roading).

And I know that you're wrong about rolling resistance. It matters MORE at higher speeds, not less. You might have been thinking about static versus rolling resistance, I am not sure, but I know that an aggressive off-road tread pattern with high rolling resistance becomes more of an issue with more speed, not less. The graph doesn't look like airspeed drag, no, but it is not digressive.

All that said - except for rolling resistance, I don't disagree with what you've stated. The issue is that you can't test it. You can't easily put a Tremor front clip on a regular Maverick. You can swap tires, we just need people to provide honest feedback. (I've seen a few people on MTC who installed mud terrain tires state their mpg didn't change and that's a little tough to believe.)

 

[710-oil-614]

And I know that you're wrong about rolling resistance. It matters MORE at higher speeds, not less.

Aye, you're going to want to throw the replay flag on this comment.

The power (ie force) to overcome friction (rolling resistance) is linear as speed increases.

You've conveniently omitted where I listed rotational mass and rolling resistance (because they are a pair when discussing the ATW3 as neither and change, and one is linear regardless of speed so I guess THAT should be omitted). Earlier you and others were discussing how the AT3W is heavy and especially in the tread - more force is required to move the extra mass than once it is at speed.

What I really should have said is the rotational inertia of the AT3W is more detrimental at low speeds than at highway speeds.

I'm not going to explain it to you - but here is link to a really great read on it -

"So as you see, rotational inertia effects can add ~30% or more to the effective mass of a car in lower gears. In higher gears, it can be as little as 5%."

Again - tires impact city MPG

Drag/Aero impacts highway MPG

Cheers to a hearty discussion, bud.

 

[colinl]

Aye, you're going to want to throw the replay flag on this comment.

Once the wheel is in motion at speed the increased mass and rolling resistance requires far less force than to accelerate from rest.

If you have shopping cart full of groceries or a stroller of kids you exert more force getting moving than you do while at speed. Hence why the heavier tire with greater rolling resistance is most detrimental to city MPG.

it's right there, where you went wrong.

"The Department of Energy estimates that 4 to 11 percent of fuel consumption is due to tire rolling resistance. "

https://www.consumerreports.org/car...tires-can-save-you-money-at-pump-a1547901110/

There's a bunch more articles relating to the effects of rolling resistance on mpg. The inescapable truth is that we can't really improve aero beyond what we've given from the factory with the notable exception being the use of a tonneau cover.

We can reduce rolling resistance, and we can increase it, and it's pretty easy to increase aerodynamic drag. All I'm saying is that if we look at the tires, they alone can account for more than 3mpg difference at interstate highway speeds (75-85 mph). You could be right that the fascia matters to a measurable extent also. It's more difficult to test just how much that aero matters, but not impossible. Any Maverick AWD lifted 1" would be a reasonably close comparison.

 

[MarcoG]

Hybrid driven correctly consistently delivers 39 mpg 24-7

Agreed. Picked mine up in Florida, drove home to California 3300 miles, over 10 days visiting friends. 39 all day everyday at 75 mph with trifold cover ( and not an issue). Get much higher in town in city traffic, except very short trips.

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