ghost1986

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Man Ive never seen someone as worked up by a vehicle they dont care about as truckguysc is about the Santa Cruz :LOL:

Realistically they're going to be the same vehicle between the two. Light duty non-truck trucks. Hyundai doesnt sugar coat it, we'll see if Ford does. I honestly think the Hyundai is in the far better market position also since they dont have the Ranger that they need to aim to spec under. They can just do whatever they want for specs. The Maverick is going to for sure be held down by the new Ranger generation coming out. It may match some of the Santa Cruz capabilities but they wouldnt dare try to cut into the sales of their new Ranger. I hope they do buy into the sport adventure vehicle trope with a side focus on pushing fleet sale trucks. It satisfies both the markets the truck is realistically aimed towards. I dont understand why some people are saying it needs to be more truck-like and what not. No one is buying these things as a full capability towing/hauling truck and it would be absurd to even try to use them for that. They're both just a natural evolution of the Baja. They have to rely on the outsdoory folk to push this thing, otherwise theres no point for it to exist alongside their real trucks.

Also if they make a $35k+ Maverick I find it utterly ludicrous that anyone would buy it. Thats FX4 Ranger pricing there. Hell, thats base Gladiator pricing even. I cant fathom how much alcohol I would need to imbue buying a $35k Maverick over something far more capable and cool like a Ranger FX4/Gladiator.

Edit: @Doc Im not trying to be negative about the Maverick in the slightest, on the contrary Im absolutely in love with the attention that manufacturers are putting into light duty trucklets like the Maverick/Santa Cruz. I was just starting to drive when the Baja came out and I LOVED those things but obviously couldn't afford getting one. I also love the concept of the Ridgeline but the cost is outrageous for those things. A lighter duty, cheaper Ridgeline is perfect for me so the Santa Cruz or Maverick will be my next purchase for sure IF the price is right. If its priced near the Ranger I just dont see the point when the Ranger wins on all capability fronts and honestly isnt all that much larger of a footprint. Plus, as you know Doc, they're really cool trucks in general arent they?
 
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Old Ranchero

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Man Ive never seen someone as worked up by a vehicle they dont care about as truckguysc is about the Santa Cruz :LOL:

Realistically they're going to be the same vehicle between the two. Light duty non-truck trucks. Hyundai doesnt sugar coat it, we'll see if Ford does. I honestly think the Hyundai is in the far better market position also since they dont have the Ranger that they need to aim to spec under. They can just do whatever they want for specs. The Maverick is going to for sure be held down by the new Ranger generation coming out. It may match some of the Santa Cruz capabilities but they wouldnt dare try to cut into the sales of their new Ranger. I hope they do buy into the sport adventure vehicle trope with a side focus on pushing fleet sale trucks. It satisfies both the markets the truck is realistically aimed towards. I dont understand why some people are saying it needs to be more truck-like and what not. No one is buying these things as a full capability towing/hauling truck and it would be absurd to even try to use them for that. They're both just a natural evolution of the Baja. They have to rely on the outsdoory folk to push this thing, otherwise theres no point for it to exist alongside their real trucks.

Also if they make a $35k+ Maverick I find it utterly ludicrous that anyone would buy it. Thats FX4 Ranger pricing there. Hell, thats base Gladiator pricing even. I cant fathom how much alcohol I would need to imbue buying a $35k Maverick over something far more capable and cool like a Ranger FX4/Gladiator.

Edit: @Doc Im not trying to be negative about the Maverick in the slightest, on the contrary Im absolutely in love with the attention that manufacturers are putting into light duty trucklets like the Maverick/Santa Cruz. I was just starting to drive when the Baja came out and I LOVED those things but obviously couldn't afford getting one. I also love the concept of the Ridgeline but the cost is outrageous for those things. A lighter duty, cheaper Ridgeline is perfect for me so the Santa Cruz or Maverick will be my next purchase for sure IF the price is right. If its priced near the Ranger I just dont see the point when the Ranger wins on all capability fronts and honestly isnt all that much larger of a footprint. Plus, as you know Doc, they're really cool trucks in general arent they?
actually, Ford pioneered the segment in the 1950s with the Ranchero. The Maverick is more naturally a rebirth and modernizing of the car/truck concept that is perfect for many people that have less than heavy duty truck type needs full time and prefer a more car like ride, handling and size than even a Ranger in Ford's lineup.
 

MarcusBrody

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Man Ive never seen someone as worked up by a vehicle they dont care about as truckguysc is about the Santa Cruz :LOL:

Realistically they're going to be the same vehicle between the two. Light duty non-truck trucks. Hyundai doesnt sugar coat it, we'll see if Ford does. I honestly think the Hyundai is in the far better market position also since they dont have the Ranger that they need to aim to spec under. They can just do whatever they want for specs. The Maverick is going to for sure be held down by the new Ranger generation coming out. It may match some of the Santa Cruz capabilities but they wouldnt dare try to cut into the sales of their new Ranger. I hope they do buy into the sport adventure vehicle trope with a side focus on pushing fleet sale trucks. It satisfies both the markets the truck is realistically aimed towards. I dont understand why some people are saying it needs to be more truck-like and what not. No one is buying these things as a full capability towing/hauling truck and it would be absurd to even try to use them for that. They're both just a natural evolution of the Baja. They have to rely on the outsdoory folk to push this thing, otherwise theres no point for it to exist alongside their real trucks.

Also if they make a $35k+ Maverick I find it utterly ludicrous that anyone would buy it. Thats FX4 Ranger pricing there. Hell, thats base Gladiator pricing even. I cant fathom how much alcohol I would need to imbue buying a $35k Maverick over something far more capable and cool like a Ranger FX4/Gladiator.

Edit: @Doc Im not trying to be negative about the Maverick in the slightest, on the contrary Im absolutely in love with the attention that manufacturers are putting into light duty trucklets like the Maverick/Santa Cruz. I was just starting to drive when the Baja came out and I LOVED those things but obviously couldn't afford getting one. I also love the concept of the Ridgeline but the cost is outrageous for those things. A lighter duty, cheaper Ridgeline is perfect for me so the Santa Cruz or Maverick will be my next purchase for sure IF the price is right. If its priced near the Ranger I just dont see the point when the Ranger wins on all capability fronts and honestly isnt all that much larger of a footprint. Plus, as you know Doc, they're really cool trucks in general arent they?
I think the question is whether a 35k Ranger will be more capable for what an individual wants to do with it. Will it be more fuel efficient? No. Will it handle as well on road? No. Will it be more comfortable? Likely no. Will the back seat be more comfortable? Probably not. Will it be as easy to park? No. Will it be as easy to load? No (assuming you don't need the 6 in longer bed).

The Ranger will be better off road, capable of towing more, and likely has higher payload. But if you aren't maxing out those capabilities on the Maverick, why get a truck that's worse at what you are doing in the name of capability?
 

MarcusBrody

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Ford can’t beat Hyundai in tech? You obviously haven’t read any reviews of the tech in the Mustang Mach E. Automotive and technology press were pretty blown away by it.

The head unit in the Santa Cruz is awful! As others have noted they made the same gawdawful mistake that Honda did in the Ridgeline that they just somewhat corrected by sticking a volume knob on the head unit. (I know, I have one. It’s awful)

The Santa Cruz has NO off-road chops, not even light off-road like the Ridgeline.. and they didn’t design it to have any. Not w 20” wheels.

it’s a small, modern-day, Korean El Camino. By Hyundai’s own words, it’s NOT a truck... the Maverick IS a truck..

Going after totally different market segments. Ford is going after those who want a small “truck”. Ford is planning off-road versions, Timberline, Tremor, etc., something Hyundai couldn’t dream about doing w the Santa Cruz.

It is not about one having to be cheaper than the other, it’s about one being designed for one market segment and another designed for a different market segment.

Ford knows trucks. I’m sure they did their homework for which is the larger market. (The Ridgeline serves as the test case for “non-truck” vehicles w a bed, and the sales numbers are tepid at best).

I’d gladly fork over $35K if I can get a Timberline or Tremor trim, GOAT mode, AT tires, 2” lift, etc, whereas I wouldn’t even bother looking at a Santa Cruz.

Hyundai has said “It’s not a truck”, how much more clear could they be?

Hyundai is going after the skinny-Jean wearing, soy-latte drinking urban crowd BY THEIR OWN WORDS.

The Santa Cruz is a more stylized Subaru Baja, but wo the light off-road Subaru chops..
I basically want the same Maverick as you, but just to clarify, the Santa Cruz can be optioned with 18 in wheels for a more off (dirt) road focused build.
 

dp4616

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Santa Cruz is ugly IMO but looks great everywhere else. up to 5k towing, bed is pretty legit. Cant wait to see Maverick.
 

zeketolliver

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I wonder why Ford silenced the unofficial media blitz. It seems like the Maverick was generating a lot of buzz, and now it's all been silenced. I have to question the wisdom of silencing the buzz and allowing the Santa Cruz to get an advanced foothold on the market.

I have to wonder if Ford will put ANY marketing behind the Maverick, or if it is just going to be a quiet, cheap release.

I also wonder if they're having trouble getting the price down to $20k as has been rumored.

Of course, it could be they are letting Hyundai set the bar, so they can quietly tweak their designs to directly compete against the Santa Cruz.
 

STDriver03

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I wonder why Ford silenced the unofficial media blitz. It seems like the Maverick was generating a lot of buzz, and now it's all been silenced. I have to question the wisdom of silencing the buzz and allowing the Santa Cruz to get an advanced foothold on the market.

I have to wonder if Ford will put ANY marketing behind the Maverick, or if it is just going to be a quiet, cheap release.

I also wonder if they're having trouble getting the price down to $20k as has been rumored.

Of course, it could be they are letting Hyundai set the bar, so they can quietly tweak their designs to directly compete against the Santa Cruz.
Kinda late to tweak the design I'd think as we hear Mavericks are already on the production line in Hermosillo. Tweak the price perhaps. I see Hyundai hasn't yet announced price so this will be interesting to watch.
 

MarcusBrody

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Kinda late to tweak the design I'd think as we hear Mavericks are already on the production line in Hermosillo. Tweak the price perhaps. I see Hyundai hasn't yet announced price so this will be interesting to watch.
Yep, at this point any refinements in design that aren't emergency fixes are likely being added to the list for the midcycle refresh a few years from now. Auto design has a really long lead time. They might be able to make some smaller changes with the parts spec, but overall design has likely been finalized for a while.
 

the1mrb

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I wonder why Ford silenced the unofficial media blitz. It seems like the Maverick was generating a lot of buzz, and now it's all been silenced. I have to question the wisdom of silencing the buzz and allowing the Santa Cruz to get an advanced foothold on the market.

I have to wonder if Ford will put ANY marketing behind the Maverick, or if it is just going to be a quiet, cheap release.

I also wonder if they're having trouble getting the price down to $20k as has been rumored.

Of course, it could be they are letting Hyundai set the bar, so they can quietly tweak their designs to directly compete against the Santa Cruz.
I'm not so sure it's been a "Ford has silenced the media" as much as it's just that there's nothing new to talk about. If pre-production vehicles aren't driving around being photographed and there isn't any new leaked information, there is no reason for writing a new article or creating a new video with nothing new to say or show.

And I'll also second, or third, the statement that it's much too late in the process to make design changes. Ford is well into the final certification testing at this point. As an engineer who has been a part of a handful of certification phases, both clean sheet and refresh, I can assure that these processes take a long time. Heck, look at the full-size Bronco. The fans wanted the manual to be offered with the Sasquatch package. Ford is making that change for them, but it won't be available as an option until next year. A full year and a half after announcing the change. That should give an idea of just how long it takes to incorporate a design change. Even a relatively minor one, as far as the engineering goes, like that.
 

STDriver03

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One would think that tons of research, market surveys, and sample groups are conducted to try and better grasp who the prospective buyers are and what they really want. Then again, I've seen companies put out some really bonehead designs because some high-level execs decided they knew better. Tweaks and new options in subsequent years show a company is responsive to public reaction. There is no pleasing everyone. But let's hope Ford really did their homework before going to production on the Maverick.
 
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Art Vandelay

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The Aztek did well in market research
That's actually not true. The funny thing is that Bob Lutz later said that when it was presented to focus groups they hated it. Of course GM being GM at that time and making some of the worst cars in their history still decided this is what their customers wanted. It was really part of a long string of comical miscalculations by GM. It's no surprise they ended needing a government bailout less than a decade later.

Bob Lutz, who took over the top product job at GM in the aftermath of the Aztek, has claimed that the design was presented to focus groups who felt about the thing the way we all felt about it when we first saw it: They hated it. Well, actually Lutz claimed that the market-research respondents said, “I wouldn’t take it as a gift.” So convinced were the powers that be of the essential rightness of the vehicle, though, that this didn’t kill the Aztek, either.

https://www.caranddriver.com/featur...he-story-of-a-vehicle-best-forgotten-feature/
 
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theek

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What if Ford screwed up things like towing capacity and payload and Hyundai has them completely beat? That would explain silence.
 

Old Ranchero

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What if Ford screwed up things like towing capacity and payload and Hyundai has them completely beat? That would explain silence.
that's all kinds a wrong for multiple reasons. Ford came out publicly they were livid about all the leaks around the time the Hermosillo pictures leaked with implied heavy penalties for any factory, supplier, vendor, etc. that allowed another leak. It stopped then and the silence is deliberate on Ford's part. Lest you forget, there is a huge worldwide shortage of chips to make vehicles and it's across the board with all makes.The delays in production for the Bronco was a wake up call for Ford brass and screwed their entry to market plans and I'm sure they don't want to repeat that with the Maverick which is a brand new segment vehicle for them and there's probably been growing pains on the new production lines.

Also, this isn't a 2 horse race between Santa Fe and Maverick. They aren't in the same segment and have different target audiences so no reason to rush it when Hyundai hasn't even put 1 in a showroom yet and no real world testing and reporting from magazines even about the actual drivability and capability of any of them.

last but not least, how many people have you seen state "If I can't have X, then I'm buying Y for sure" My impression is people here would rather hold on to what they have and hold off purchasing any of them until Maverick is at least out and selling and features, pricing is all revealed before making a decision. There might be 1 or 2 that prefer the Santa Cruz already and would buy before even seeing the real Maverick when released. In my case if Maverick doesn't have enough of what I want, I'll wait for the new Ranger and test drive some 2021 and 2022 Nissan Frontiers to widen my options. If I'm still not sold, I'll probably have to find a nice restored 1964/65 Falcon Ranchero with V-8 and manual :cool:
 
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