EV Deep Dive - Ford/Toyota

[Chops]

Last, if you are putting politics into your EV opinions then you are a complete bonehead. Your political motivations in regard to an EV have no connection except what’s in your head.

Bob

The video in the OP avoided talking politics - stuck to the topic of engineering, manufacturing, and the future “tidal wave” of less expensive Chinese imports.

You are correct that the Chinese subsidies was ignored in the video & in my bonehead comment

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[Prickly Pear]

GM loses about 8 GRAND per Chevy bolt. They cant continue that forever. Just looked it up to see if that is still correct and it is. Bolt sells in 28 K range Chevy Trax BIGGER sells for much less 24K range . So your paying for an inferior drive train convenience wise. Yes its lower cost to drive BUT you have to make up that initial price difference. All while GM loses 8 K.

Oh My Hybrid Mav goes 500 miles per tank easy with range to spare.

I"m familiar with the Maverick's range - one is sitting in my carport.
What did you mean by "inferior drive train"? Are you saying all EV drive trains are inferior or just the one used in the Bolt?

 

[babytruk]

The Bolt is a low volume seller. A niche vehicle. It is great if it fits your needs. Definitely not for the masses. Have you got 260+ miles on a single charge? Or is that an exaggeration on chevy's part. Have you taken a 500 mile trip in a single day? If so, was it easy or a hassle? And the masses think the bosses are asses.

I drove a rental Tesla from MA to FL with no hotel stops.
easy… yes! I need to pee and get food so standing next to a pump before I did this stuff really evened things out. Don’t even need to swipe a card and select anything. Overall it was a less-stressed drive. Charging stations in the southeast were a bit weak but the car knows that and directs you a proper route with timely stops.
So I took the challenge and was a bit disappointed how easy “reality” was.
Will I buy a Tesla after that pleasant experience…. NO! …but I cannot bash it having tried it.
Note: I drove from PA to MA before heading to FL.
My brother has a fairly large car collection. When we search EV on his computer, he gets a bunch of nasty results. When I do the same search sitting next to him with my laptop, I get mixed results. Funny how search engines work.

 

[Scott Asheville]

Unions didnt force GM into providing a narrow product line or their vast array of poor management decisions. Frankly, if you cant afford to pay your workers decently to the point a union is necessary, you shouldn't eb in business. Especially when toyota and honda are paying their non union workers comparable wages and have no issue offering budget models built int he states vs overseas. The worker wages are not the issue there.​

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But Americans will find any excuse to treat their workers like total garbage in the name of corporate profits.​

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I grew up in a union family in the rust belt. So you're not going to pull that same old unionist propaganda on me. Nice try.

I can still remember an older brother working at GE locomotive factory in Erie PA. The union had negotiated piece work in the contract. My brother would finish his piece work quota 2 hours into the morning, and then the union boss ordered him to sit in the machine for the next six hours reading a book so the company could not use it.

The UAW has been so corrupt for so long that the federal government now has to maintain a monitor to prevent union management from stealing from the union members.

Yea, unions are just frigging brilliant. Which is why unionized companies have been shrinking for 5 years now as they kill the companies that feed them. Auto union membership is at an all time low in the USA.

Try another line of bullshit.

 

[Prickly Pear]

The Bolt is a low volume seller. A niche vehicle. It is great if it fits your needs. Definitely not for the masses. Have you got 260+ miles on a single charge? Or is that an exaggeration on chevy's part. Have you taken a 500 mile trip in a single day? If so, was it easy or a hassle? And the masses think the bosses are asses.

It's been about 20 years since I have driven 500 miles in a day, but if I had to and was staying on the West Coast I would not hesitate taking the Bolt. Lots of public charging and the price is comparable with buying gas. You can tell the car what route you are taking and it will show you all the charging options and even get the battery ready to accept maximum charge rate. That said, even though I wouldn't hesitate I'd probably drive the Mav and get there with a couple of gallons of gas to spare

 

[TheSEARCH]

I"m familiar with the Maverick's range - one is sitting in my carport.
What did you mean by "inferior drive train"? Are you saying all EV drive trains are inferior or just the one used in the Bolt?

inferior drive train convenience wise. You left out my REASON. Convenience. Yes that applies across ALL EV vehicles AS OF NOW. .. I hope I don't need to explain WHY its a convenience issue.

But You came up with the Bolt in response to another poster saying there is no EV for the masses. The Bolt fails that as GM would be bankrupt if it sold 400K a year like popular mass cars sell at. So NO its NOT a car for the masses.

Who knows some day an EV might charge in 5 minutes go 500 miles and cost less. That sure doesn't apply NOW.

 

[BillHanna]

Years ago I was in a truck stop restaurant eating, and the guy next to me was bitching about unions, so I asked him what he didn't like about them. He said "they make too much money." I ask him if he would want to make more money, and he said "sure."
I never could understand that logic. . . Get a union job and make better wages, or just bitch about them.
In the 70's I worked for a newspaper in Florida and we voted the union out. Big mistake; from that point forward we never knew what our job was, or if we even had a job.
I've always said it's a shame that we have to have unions, but there are few companies that will provide good benefits without a union.

 

[Prickly Pear]

inferior drive train convenience wise. You left out my REASON. Convenience. Yes that applies across ALL EV vehicles AS OF NOW. .. I hope I don't need to explain WHY its a convenience issue.

But You came up with the Bolt in response to another poster saying there is no EV for the masses. The Bolt fails that as GM would be bankrupt if it sold 400K a year like popular mass cars sell at. So NO its NOT a car for the masses.

Who knows some day an EV might charge in 5 minutes go 500 miles and cost less. That sure doesn't apply NOW.

I didn't ignore your reason, just trying to understand it. Convenience is very subjective. If you take your 500 mile in a day use case you can argue that driving through on a single tank, or stopping for gas where there are no lines and jumping back in your car is faster than my 10 to 80% charge in 25 minutes. If your use case is charging at home and not exceeding 200+ miles in a day, not having to stop for gas (ever), not having to change oil etc is very convenient and having an ICE is not.
Another old expression - "you can't sell at a loss and make it up in volume ". Do you have a source for how much money GM loses on each bolt it sells? I'm not saying it isn't true but there is lots of misinformation floating around the web. The Bolt is made using the same design and I believe tooling for the body as was used on the previous years EUV. The engine and drive train is from the Equinox, and I think most of the other "innards" are repurposed from other EV's they make. The supplied charger we got has a Cadillac Lyriq part number. The Bolt may not be a giant profit driver (like the Maverick) but it's a great little car.

 

[SafetyGuy]

Good day

An interesting and also informative video, from beginning to end as to how much change is needed and is also going on right now.

Another generational change is taking place, it seems...like going from sail power to coal power, or horse and buggy to ice-powered modes of transport.

Add in the extreme environmental changes we are seeing now because of our use of "dino-juice", the change can't happen fast enough...if we care about our children's future, as I see it.

This video doesn't touch on that aspect, as it isn't part of the equation they are using but the result can help us in that area as well, eventually.

It seems we are "living in interesting times". Hmmm.

Thank you for the great video!

Andy

 

[Chops]

“May you live in interesting times” indeed.

When I was a child, my mom would tell me to “finish your plate - there are children in China starving!”.

Now it is “finish your engineering degree - there are graduates in China designing cars!”.

 

[Propane Burning Man]

It's been about 20 years since I have driven 500 miles in a day, but if I had to and was staying on the West Coast I would not hesitate taking the Bolt. Lots of public charging and the price is comparable with buying gas. You can tell the car what route you are taking and it will show you all the charging options and even get the battery ready to accept maximum charge rate. That said, even though I wouldn't hesitate I'd probably drive the Mav and get there with a couple of gallons of gas to spare

I appreciate your honesty. I still do make 500 mile trips in a day, not a lot, maybe 4 times a year. You make a great point about still owning a gas vehicle, like most EV owners still do. Some times its the EV sometimes its the gas vehicle. So gas is not becoming obsolete like Kodak film.

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