Engineering a marvel of a Maverick hybrid transmission

[Ozarkbeard]

Interesting article from 2022 on the HF45 eCVT.
https://www.sae.org/news/2022/04/engineering-fords-new-hf45-hybrid-transmission

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[Red Ryder]

Thanks for sharing, that was a good read. Far as I can tell, the hybrid's transmission is a bright spot in the Maverick's development. Lots of variables and potential pitfalls with the new motor, but it seems to have gone very well. I never had any glitches or oddities with my hybrid's transmission.

 

[Ozarkbeard]

Thanks for sharing, that was a good read. Far as I can tell, the hybrid's transmission is a bright spot in the Maverick's development. Lots of variables and potential pitfalls with the new motor, but it seems to have gone very well. I never had any glitches or oddities with my hybrid's transmission.

If you're referring to the gasoline motor, yes. Hopefully, quality control problems with some of the ICEs & initial electric wiring issues have been resolved. The design of the Hybrid system itself, including the battery and the eCVT, will overall, likely be very reliable.

 

[Red Ryder]

If you're referring to the gasoline motor, yes. Hopefully, quality control problems with some of the ICEs & initial electric wiring issues have been resolved. The design of the Hybrid system itself, including the battery and the eCVT, will overall, likely be very reliable.

Actually, I was referring to the in-house design of the eCVT-related electric motor, a significant part of the article you shared. There were enough design changes (e.g flat wire stator, new magnet orientation on the rotor, etc.) to introduce issues, but it appears they nailed it.

 

[TexasHybrid]

This is the design that has me sold on the Ford/Toyota eCVT design. Honda is a close second.

Advantages of the eCVT on the Maverick:

• Reasonable towing - 2000 lbs.
• No accessory belts
• No solenoids or clutches engaging
• No Torque Convertor
• No Turbo

Should be a solid drivetrain that may outlast me.

Able to buy a reasonable feature filled vehicle, that is small for errands and daily do it stuff.
Truck bed for bigger items like a washing machine without getting a trailer.

Is it perfect? Nope. Will it work as a replacement for my '09 CRV, mostly yes. Won't replace the rear hatch.

-------------

An update. Been looking at Hybrid hatchbacks with an eCVT. For a CRV, there is no spare tire, otherwise was comparable. The lack of a spare tire storage is a deal breaker for the CRV. I think the Escape and Rav4 have spare tires, need to confirm.

At the price point, the Maverick out performs all of the mentioned.

 

[JsnMrd]

As long as it doesn't catch on fire! Lol!

But seriously, what a roller coaster of emotions here. I love the truck! I like looking at it, seeing it, more than my Model Y. It has its charm. Looks like a budget Rivian R1t!

The thing that worries me is its longevity. I wanna call it my forever truck but the recall about the fire makes me doubt it can go the distance.

One part of me is hoping it will serve me many many years but the other half thinks I should sell it while It's still in demand.

I can't replace it because there's just nothing like it and for how long the journey it took to get it.

Please Ford find a solid fix for this. I don't wanna have to let it go.

 

[NoVaJimmy]

Ford claims to have developed the HF45 on its own and there are a lot of things on the HF45 that are indeed unique but the overall design concept of it is a Toyota design and Ford has had a license agreement with Toyota since 2004 I believe to use the major design principles of the Toyota ecvt. If you study Toyotas system compared to Ford's you'll see that they are extremely similar in the way they operate. Now you know why the system is so reliable....

 

[Timothyd]

Interesting article from 2022 on the HF45 eCVT.
https://www.sae.org/news/2022/04/engineering-fords-new-hf45-hybrid-transmission

The entire hybrid system is sooooo cool. I just love the cleverness of it.

 

[jsus]

Interesting article from 2022 on the HF45 eCVT.
https://www.sae.org/news/2022/04/engineering-fords-new-hf45-hybrid-transmission

See existing thread(s):

https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/f...l-hybrid-hf45-transmission.30754/#post-564194

 

[Hoagus]

Ford claims to have developed the HF45 on its own and there are a lot of things on the HF45 that are indeed unique but the overall design concept of it is a Toyota design and Ford has had a license agreement with Toyota since 2004 I believe to use the major design principles of the Toyota ecvt. If you study Toyotas system compared to Ford's you'll see that they are extremely similar in the way they operate. Now you know why the system is so reliable....

I’ve heard they shared the research, then cross-licensed the designs developed from that research. I haven’t seen anything definitive on who developed what. AFAIK, Ford could have developed that part, or portions thereof. It would be interesting to know the details of all that.

 

[icegradner]

Aisin

I’ve heard they shared the research, then cross-licensed the designs developed from that research. I haven’t seen anything definitive on who developed what. AFAIK, Ford could have developed that part, or portions thereof. It would be interesting to know the details of all that.

It's stated in the article that Ford used the Aisin and Denso designs for the HF35, and the HF45 is an updated version of that. Aisin was the pioneer of some components and Denso basically = Toyota (it is part of the Toyota Group).

 

[NoVaJimmy]

I’ve heard they shared the research, then cross-licensed the designs developed from that research. I haven’t seen anything definitive on who developed what. AFAIK, Ford could have developed that part, or portions thereof. It would be interesting to know the details of all that.

That's incorrect. Plenty of documentation around 2004 highlighting Ford licensing that technology from Toyota. Toyota used that tech in the 90s on the first gen Prius, way before Ford ever introduced a hybrid.

 

[Maverstang]

There is no question the basic HF-45 transmission is a rock solid design with high component reliability.

However overall reliability will be more affected by the goofy external issues, like 12v battery charging, the exhaust water heater, wiring and control programming.

Ford still has to learn that attention to detail is just as important as component reliability for overall vehicle reliability and reduced warranty costs.

 

[Automate]

That's incorrect. Plenty of documentation around 2004 highlighting Ford licensing that technology from Toyota. Toyota used that tech in the 90s on the first gen Prius, way before Ford ever introduced a hybrid.

The correct story is Ford was working on an eCVT design separately but at the same time as Toyota. Toyota filed their eCVT patent first. So Ford traded some of their emissions controls patents to Toyota in exchange for the eCVT rights.

Ford never paid Toyota any royalties but they did purchase their first eCVT transmissions from the same Japanese company that was provided them to Toyota.

It's all a moot point now since the Toyota eCVT patent is over 20 years old and expired and Ford completely manufactures their own design of the eCVT now.

 

[Maverstang]

The correct story is Ford was working on an eCVT design separately but at the same time as Toyota. Toyota filed their eCVT patent first. So Ford traded some of their emissions controls patents to Toyota in exchange for for the eCVT rights.

Ford never paid Toyota any royalties but they did purchase their first eCVT transmissions from the same Japanese company that was provided them to Toyota.

It's all a moot point now since the Toyota eCVT patent is over 20 years old and expired and Ford completely manufactures their own design of the eCVT now.

You are right about the Ford and Toyota situation, but neither originated the single planetary two motor torque split design.

The concept was originally created by TRW (a major auto supplier) in the late sixties and described in a seminal 1971 SAE paper. It was first used for flywheel energy storage in buses before being adopted by Toyota and Ford for passenger cars.

Here is a fascinating 90+ slide 2005 seminar from JNJ Miller Design (an engineering consultant house) covering some history and providing detailed engineering performance data (including equations) for the mainstream power split designs:
http://john2211.nl/Hybride_links_files/Miller_W04.pdf

Also in there is an interesting overview of the GM-Allison dual planetary gear system used on buses that became the basis of the future Volt hybrid.

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