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Do you need premium gas?

CoryDallas8123

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hahahaha. More "IM RIGHT, YOURE WRONG!"

You don't want to get into a Simpsons gif/video off with me good sir. You will lose!

Simpsons>Anything not named Seinfeld.
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JASmith

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You think I can't track and calculate fuel expenses?
I think you can't read very well. My argument, if you would calm down and actually read my post that you flipped out about, is that there will be negligible difference in fuel economy, but significant difference in horsepower when the weather is hot. Read your own Ford Maverick owner's manual, it will tell you the exact same thing... I know, its a conspiracy!

You have no means of completely draining your fuel system to compare 87 and 93 octane horsepower, no means of performing a back to back test, and have yourself admitted that you did no scientific testing such as running on a dyno or doing various performance tests like Car and Driver did. :poop:
 

MLowe05

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I think you can't read very well. My argument, if you would calm down and actually read my post that you flipped out about, is that there will be negligible difference in fuel economy, but significant difference in horsepower.

You have no means of completely draining your fuel system to compare 87 and 93 octane horsepower, no means of performing a back to back test, and have yourself admitted that you did no scientific testing such as running on a dyno or doing various performance tests like Car and Driver did. :poop:
I am not sure that you know what "scientific" or "significant" mean. You cherry picked data, made wild assumptions, and then accused me of not understanding the process. 🤣
 

JASmith

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I am not sure that you know what "scientific" or "significant" mean. You cherry picked data, made wild assumptions, and then accused me of not understanding the process. 🤣
Someone else cited the F-150, and I showed a 20hp difference even under cool ambient conditions with the source, along with various other performance tests. I cited the Mazda because its one of the few manufacturers that actually publishes what the horsepower is with different octanes on their website, and its a similar 250hp four banger turbo engine, and again cited the source.

You completely changed the goal post to tracking fuel costs when the argument was regarding horsepower, showing how completely entrenched you are that you aren't even paying attention, and your rebuttal to these tests is that your butt dyno couldn't tell a difference when you don't even have a way to test 87 and 93 back to back since it would take more than a complete fuel tank to even rid yourself of low octane fuel remnants lowering the octane of 93 you fueled up with.

You should be embarrassed.
 

stoptothink

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Source? If you can't find one, at the very least list the make and model of your vehicle so we can verify your claim.
According to APR, a VW jetta with the 1.4T engine makes 122-125hp at the wheel on 87 and 127hp on 91 http://www.goapr.com.mt/products/ecu_upgrade_14tsi_ea211.html. I believe it says on the sticker on the inside of my fuel door that the engine requires premium for full power (150hp), but makes 147 on 87.
 

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stoptothink

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Someone else cited the F-150, and I showed a 20hp difference even under cool ambient conditions with the source, along with various other performance tests. I cited the Mazda because its one of the few manufacturers that actually publishes what the horsepower is with different octanes on their website, and its a similar 250hp four banger turbo engine, and again cited the source.

You completely changed the goal post to tracking fuel costs when the argument was regarding horsepower, showing how completely entrenched you are that you aren't even paying attention, and your rebuttal to these tests is that your butt dyno couldn't tell a difference when you don't even have a way to test 87 and 93 back to back since it would take more than a complete fuel tank to even rid yourself of low octane fuel remnants lowering the octane of 93 you fueled up with.

You should be embarrassed.
The thread is titled "Do I need premium gas?" I'm not sure how anybody is moving the goalpost, we're all posting data, from different sources, on different cars, under different conditions. We can extrapolate the data as much as we want, the only thing that is clear is that the answer to the OP's question is no.
 

CoryDallas8123

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This is some great theatre on a Saturday morning while drinking a bloody mary watching college football.
 

MakinDoForNow

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I'd throw out there, regardless of what octane you run try to add a fuel cleaner at each fill up. I run Conklin Fuel Mate Plus, 3 oz. per fill up. Helps keep everyone in the engine clean and happy.

https://www.conklin.com/product-catalog/vehicle-products/fuel-mate-plus
We basically have same approach except I use Lucas fuel treatment = keep everybody happy with 1 oz/5gal or so. Definitely use in every tank for small engines and run them regularly. I don't winterize my riding mower as I ride it every other day at least 1600 feet to my mail box. Starts quickly with Lucas cranks longer without. May not need as often with hybrid (maybe more so?) Since it will start much more often. Since it attempts to run at optimum generating efficiency most of the time with the charging of the drive battery only getting the excess current above that needed until the battery gets to some state of charge (70%?) At which time the engine turns off. As I understand the engine may start initially to preheat itself and catalytic converters so it can operate in optimum mode as well as to preheat battery to help it get ready to accept rapid charging from spouses braking habits. I did not order engine block heater as I live in Texas but wonder if it might help. Anyone know how the oiling works in the transaxle/transmission with the drive motor at such a high rpm (surely not submerged)?
 

CoryDallas8123

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We basically have same approach except I use Lucas fuel treatment = keep everybody happy with 1 oz/5gal or so. Definitely use in every tank for small engines and run them regularly. I don't winterize my riding mower as I ride it every other day at least 1600 feet to my mail box. Starts quickly with Lucas cranks longer without. May not need as often with hybrid (maybe more so?) Since it will start much more often. Since it attempts to run at optimum generating efficiency most of the time with the charging of the drive battery only getting the excess current above that needed until the battery gets to some state of charge (70%?) At which time the engine turns off. As I understand the engine may start initially to preheat itself and catalytic converters so it can operate in optimum mode as well as to preheat battery to help it get ready to accept rapid charging from spouses braking habits. I did not order engine block heater as I live in Texas but wonder if it might help. Anyone know how the oiling works in the transaxle/transmission with the drive motor at such a high rpm (surely not submerged)?
Ah yes, the ole riding lawn mower to end of the lane to get the mail. 1600 feet is pretty close to what my parents do too to get the mail. hahahaha.

Yeah, I've never had a Hybrid and I am sure the fuel cleaners were not designed with Hybrid in mind so it'll be interesting to read up on recommended uses going forward on the Hybrid.
 
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MLowe05

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The thread is titled "Do I need premium gas?" I'm not sure how anybody is moving the goalpost, we're all posting data, from different sources, on different cars, under different conditions. We can extrapolate the data as much as we want, the only thing that is clear is that the answer to the OP's question is no.
Those who deny reason can't be conquered by it.

You're right, the only clear answer is - NO, the Maverick will not need premium fuel. Owners are free to throw money away on premium if they so desire.
 

JASmith

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I'm not sure how anybody is moving the goalpost
Because my post is that there wouldn't be a big difference in fuel economy, but that there would be a significant horsepower delta particularly in the summer. The response that my post was nonsense was ultimately defended by him claiming that while he doesn't have an ability to measure horsepower in anyway, that he is able to calculate fuel usage.

That's moving the goal post from a debate about horsepower to one of fuel efficiency.

The facts are:
* Ford indicates that premium is recommended.
* Ford indicates that it is not possible to achieve 250hp without premium fuel.
* Other Fords make more horsepower on 93 octane than they do 87 octane.
* Other similar four cylinder turbos making 250hp on 93 octane drop to 227hp on 87 octane per the manufacturer.

Do you need to use premium fuel to achieve Ford's advertised performance?

Yes, per Ford, in writing, particularly if its hot outside or when towing which Ford again confirms in the owner's manual and is common sense.
 

vabchusa

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I have a Ford C max hybrid and have averaged 41.7 mpg over 165500 miles and 6 years. I drop a bottle of injector cleaner in about every 25000 miles. I am not a race car type driver but do travel about 5 mph over the limit. I do not care about 0-60 or 1/4 mile times. In these days of computer controlled engines, that computer constantly retimes/resets the engine for best performance under what ever driving conditions/driver or fuel used.
 

MLowe05

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Attached is the AAA study which used a wide range of vehicles under a wide range of circumstances.

https://newsroom.aaa.com/wp-content...ium-Fuel-Phase-II-Research-Report-FINAL-2.pdf

Of course, JASmith would have you believe that this isn't a valid study since it didn't align with their opinions, but essentially the improvements you will see the premium fuel will not make it a worthwile ROI, especially if you live in an area like I do where premium is .60-.80c more per gallon.

The report is 68 pages long. The main points are the cars (all of which recommend but do not require premium) saw an average of 2.7% better fuel economy and 1.4% more horsepower while running premium. That means a car with 250hp and 25mpg on 87 would have 253.5hp and get 25.7mpg on premium.

You can decide if the significant cost increases are worth that to you. My recommendation is to use premium in vehicles where it is required and no where else.
 
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IPunchCholla

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hahahaha. More "IM RIGHT, YOURE WRONG!"

You don't want to get into a Simpsons gif/video off with me good sir. You will lose!

Simpsons>Anything not named Seinfeld.
It’s actually saying the evidence you presented does not in anyway verify your claims. You have anecdotal evidence of correlation, nothing more. There is no claim to you being wrong and I never even took a position to be right about.
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