Chip Shortage

[M.A.C.]

what if the jobs aren't worth double the pay to the owner? That's what has been lost in discussions about minimum wage, "living wage", etc. It's well known for example most new restaurants fail in the 1st year of business. Go to any mom & pop restaurant and you'll generally find family members working there- a significant % of which don't take ANY pay because the business is not making any profit and just trying to survive until/if they do become profitable. If they are fortunate enough for business to pick up they might need to hire a dishwasher, hostess, etc. to keep up with the volume of new customers. How is it anyone's business to demand the owners pay $15/hr for those unskilled positions when the owners and family are working for free to keep business open? Huge disconnect between what the owner thinks it's worth and what outsiders think it SHOULD be worth for reasons not related to the actual skill/labor involved.

Forget the $15.00 for a minute, it’s about what the employee can produce for the company, the numbers we were talking earlier represent more like $30.00 an hour and we would be willing to pay it if the employee can produce enough revenue.

In both our examples we go out of our way to make it a no brainer to get paid around $1,200.00 a week and actually put in 30 to 35 hours a week of effort and still they are thinks about if the clients house is close enough to a good lake so they can fish at lunch time.

Work doesn’t have to be fun all the time, I personally love what I do and we have been blessed with having a successful business for twenty years, but it took a lot of sacrifice, dumped ever penny we had into the business and didn’t make any real money until a year and a half later….. and we were lucky….. this current younger generation wants instant gratification…… they want to make top dollar from day one without having any skills…… then after you train them the greed for more money makes them think they can do it better…… they think they are younger and smarter of course…… then most of them fail and the pattern starts all over again…..

If anyone has any ideas on how to fix or improve this dilemma please let me know……

And yes I fully understand it’s not everyone from the younger generation, but most IMO

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[STARCOMMTREY1]

what if the jobs aren't worth double the pay to the owner? That's what has been lost in discussions about minimum wage, "living wage", etc. It's well known for example most new restaurants fail in the 1st year of business. Go to any mom & pop restaurant and you'll generally find family members working there- a significant % of which don't take ANY pay because the business is not making any profit and just trying to survive until/if they do become profitable. If they are fortunate enough for business to pick up they might need to hire a dishwasher, hostess, etc. to keep up with the volume of new customers. How is it anyone's business to demand the owners pay $15/hr for those unskilled positions when the owners and family are working for free to keep business open? Huge disconnect between what the owner thinks it's worth and what outsiders think it SHOULD be worth for reasons not related to the actual skill/labor involved.

You're right we would lose money and we already are one of the highest paying companies is our field. A good tech can do up to 4 jobs per day. Lowest rate for a job is 110. Takes about 2 hours. How is that bad money? Techs with good performance made up to 140 per.

 

[STARCOMMTREY1]

Forget the $15.00 for a minute, it’s about what the employee can produce for the company, the numbers we were talking earlier represent more like $30.00 an hour and we would be willing to pay it if the employee can produce enough revenue.

In both our examples we go out of our way to make it a no brainer to get paid around $1,200.00 a week and actually put in 30 to 35 hours a week of effort and still they are thinks about if the clients house is close enough to a good lake so they can fish at lunch time.

Work doesn’t have to be fun all the time, I personally love what I do and we have been blessed with having a successful business for twenty years, but it took a lot of sacrifice, dumped ever penny we had into the business and didn’t make any real money until a year and a half later….. and we were lucky….. this current younger generation wants instant gratification…… they want to make top dollar from day one without having any skills…… then after you train them the greed for more money makes them think they can do it better…… they think they are younger and smarter of course…… then most of them fail and the pattern starts all over again…..

If anyone has any ideas on how to fix or improve this dilemma please let me know……

And yes I fully understand it’s not everyone from the younger generation, but most IMO

This is liberal teachings that have adequate people forget what a wage is.

A wage per hour is paid assuming you are producing more that that wage per hour for the company.
10.00 for example. If you get that flipping burgers that means the company expects you to flip 15.00 of burgers per hour. If you are only producing 8.00 of burgers per hour you are over paid and something will have to give. Remember robot's do it better AND cheaper.

 

[STARCOMMTREY1]

/singsto the subway theme

15$, 15$ foot long! (Voice under we swear it contains 100 % sustainable tuna in the tuna sandwich*)
* I personally believe they are not lying but their supplier might be (probably not though )

I personally believe their Tuna is delicious and don't care what's in it....just like a nice Louisiana Gumbo...don't ask...just enjoy.

 

[M.A.C.]

agree with your main point. I would add that decades of pressure from extremist environmental groups resulting in overzealous government regulations and outrageous union contracts helped push a lot of companies to other places with a friendlier pro-business climate.

I like to be fair and balanced as much as possible, my personal opinion on regulations are the same……. I don’t want any company dumping toxic chemicals in the ground, into rivers and streams, or contaminating our well water, I don’t want children being born with lead poisoning or cancer or any other preventable disease, but I personally don’t give a rats a** if a small bird or reptile or any other creature that know body can pronounce or even see gets to decide if I can turn the land that I bought and paid for into a factory or plant or any other commercial purpose that can be used for the purposes that the land has been zoned for.

I am a tree lover not a tree hugger and extreme ideas develop extreme people, we have enough of that already.

You cannot strangle businesses with regulations, it can’t always be about the stick philosophy. Business can innovate and can be regulated but we need to make money and sometimes the amount red tape does not make it worth the effort.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[hsinking1932]

Maybe not OUR economy but it's great for China, Viet Nam, and all the other far away places.

I don't want to be rude. However, as one escaped from there, I can't entirely agree with this point. If this forum is not about a lovely pickup, I will say more. But so far I just want to say I'd rather what happened in China will not happen here.

 

[RobBot]

I think anyone who makes commision has perverse incentives.

Can there be good trustworthy people who make commision? Yes. But the incentives are all wrong. They aren't incentivised to do good things for you, only themselves.

 

[SeaMav206]

I think anyone who makes commision has perverse incentives.

Can there be good trustworthy people who make commision? Yes. But the incentives are all wrong. They aren't incentivised to do good things for you, only themselves.

Totally agreed. Only person I can see benefit you is a real estate agent if you selling a home. As they will make more money if they sell it at a higher price for you. With current housing market that stuff is no brainer.

 

[RobBot]

Totally agreed. Only person I can see benefit you is a real estate agent if you selling a home. As they will make more money if they sell it at a higher price for you. With current housing market that stuff is no brainer.

I'd rather use a flat fee real estate agent.

If they negotiate the price up $10,000, they only make $300 more, which they could easily make more selling another house. They're incentivized to flip as many houses as possible.

 

[WesM]

Sorry but I don't know how to answer your question. I guess you can look it up on the internet. I believe you'll find Car Sales profession is one of the most distrusted professions in existence. I know of female family members that have been taken advantage. I personally don't know of a single person who trusts a car sales person. Just MY OPINION.

Hate to say it, but your not wrong in most cases (there are some good ones for sure). One of my brothers is a car salesman, and he wont deal with me because I know his tricks and he knows he wont make money off me

 

[M.A.C.]

I think anyone who makes commision has perverse incentives.

Can there be good trustworthy people who make commision? Yes. But the incentives are all wrong. They aren't incentivised to do good things for you, only themselves.

We don’t pay based on commissions we pay for a job to be executed in a timely fashion and a comprehensive report to be written that is legible, informative and factual. We require our employees to pass state licensing exams and do their continuing education.

Every business model is different and I will not criticize someone else‘s business practice, there are reason why some businesses need the use of commissions. As long as those practices are not illegal, are transparent and are not used to manipulate employee.

Individuals have the right to walk away from any employment, all states provide different levels of due process. I’m not going to get into the regulatory blah blah blah.

People will always chose themselves over the other party, it has always been that way.

 

[Rkbrumbelow]

We don’t pay based on commissions we pay for a job to be executed in a timely fashion and a comprehensive report to be written that is legible, informative and factual. We require our employees to pass state licensing exams and do their continuing education.

Every business model is different and I will not criticize someone else‘s business practice, there are reason why some businesses need the use of commissions. As long as those practices are not illegal, are transparent and are not used to manipulate employee.

Individuals have the right to walk away from any employment, all states provide different levels of due process. I’m not going to get into the regulatory blah blah blah.

People will always chose themselves over the other party, it has always been that way.

TL;dr

you agreed to your terms of employment, if you don’t like them: find ones you like

 

[RobBot]

We don’t pay based on commissions we pay for a job to be executed in a timely fashion and a comprehensive report to be written that is legible, informative and factual. We require our employees to pass state licensing exams and do their continuing education.

Sounds like insurance? Insurance is especially bad, specifically life. I'm in a related field and I constantly fight with insurance agents who want to give my client's whole life insurance because they make bank on it. My clients rarely have a permanent insurance need.

I'd much rather pay an insurance agent a fee for them to write policies under a fiduciary standard instead of a suitability standard. There are insurance agents that don't pay their employees commision, and I love them. They are consistently great.

Every business model is different and I will not criticize someone else‘s business practice, there are reason why some businesses need the use of commissions. As long as those practices are not illegal, are transparent and are not used to manipulate employee.

I absolutely will criticize bad business models/practices. Dealerships are a prime example of a bad business model. Commissions are always bad for the consumer.

Individuals have the right to walk away from any employment, all states provide different levels of due process. I’m not going to get into the regulatory blah blah blah.

True, although I don't see how this is relevant. I'm not criticizing individual employees, I'm criticizing the model of commision based sales.

Also, corporations have WAY more power in this arrangement. There's a huge power imbalance. The corporation isn't going to become homeless if an employee quits, but an employee might if they get fired.

People will always chose themselves over the other party, it has always been that way.

I disagree. You can align incentives. Where I work, my interests are aligned with the client. What's good for me is good for the client. This is true in a lot of arrangements, but not with commision based sales.

TL;dr

you agreed to your terms of employment, if you don’t like them: find ones you like

I did find one I like. I get paid a salary. I still have to deal with commision based salesmen constantly.

Again, I want to emphasize, I have nothing wrong against individuals who work in this model, and I certainly believe you and everyone you know are upstanding people who do nothing but the best for your clients. My issue is with the model. The incentives are wrong.

 

[Rkbrumbelow]

Sounds like insurance? Insurance is especially bad, specifically life. I'm in a related field and I constantly fight with insurance agents who want to give my client's whole life insurance because they make bank on it. My clients rarely have a permanent insurance need.

I'd much rather pay an insurance agent a fee for them to write policies under a fiduciary standard instead of a suitability standard. There are insurance agents that don't pay their employees commision, and I love them. They are consistently great.



I absolutely will criticize bad business models/practices. Dealerships are a prime example of a bad business model. Commissions are always bad for the consumer.



True, although I don't see how this is relevant. I'm not criticizing individual employees, I'm criticizing the model of commision based sales.

Also, corporations have WAY more power in this arrangement. There's a huge power imbalance. The corporation isn't going to become homeless if an employee quits, but an employee might if they get fired.



I disagree. You can align incentives. Where I work, my interests are aligned with the client. What's good for me is good for the client. This is true in a lot of arrangements, but not with commision based sales.



I did find one I like. I get paid a salary. I still have to deal with commision based salesmen constantly.

Again, I want to emphasize, I have nothing wrong against individuals who work in this model, and I certainly believe you and everyone you know are upstanding people who do nothing but the best for your clients. My issue is with the model. The incentives are wrong.

I don’t know that commission is inherently bad, though it can be a struggle to find an example of when it is not.

best example of where I can think of it not being one was when i was a mastertech at a Fortune 500 company. The services were already sold and we mastertechs bid internally with hours and production bonuses for coming in under commitment time and over customer satisfaction. Like I might bid x hours to configure 5000 to shins tecras for prudential insurance. Say I could complete it in 500 hours and guarantee a sub 2% return. Another tech might bid differently. If I won the bid I got the job. If I completed it in budgeted time or under I got my standard rate pay for 5000 configs, if I beatthe sayisfaction scare I got 25% or whatever of the difference between the sales quoted config price and what I put in the bid for. You might not consider that commission though. I got paid based on jobs I accepted, completed and exceeded customer expectation on and it certainly did not harm the customer as they had already agreed on a date, price and satisfaction level.

 

[shark978]

This is liberal teachings that have adequate people forget what a wage is.

A wage per hour is paid assuming you are producing more that that wage per hour for the company.
10.00 for example. If you get that flipping burgers that means the company expects you to flip 15.00 of burgers per hour. If you are only producing 8.00 of burgers per hour you are over paid and something will have to give. Remember robot's do it better AND cheaper.

Plus, they dont file EEOC lawsuits.

With all due respect I am a little exhausted in hearing that Americans can’t do this and can’t do that. That we can’t manufacture, that our men and women don’t want to workin these type of jobs “Baloney” there are plenty of blue collar population segments of this country that would jump at the chance at fabrication, these individuals are not interested in going to college or can’t afford it, they are looking for high paying tech work, they will never study I.T.or coding or any other high tech carriers that require many years of study and college debt.

We are talking about hundreds of thousands of Americans that are willing to assemble car, trucks, motorcycles, anything that will give them and their families a Good living wage.

Im not telling you that any American should or would accept a $157.00 a week salary, the fact is that there are plenty of manufacturing opportunities in the USA that are not being exploited. We have the resources, we have the ability to raise capital, we can build “Mega Factories”, we have a trainable work force available.

So basically I’m saying that if other foreign companies that hire Americans can build in America, American companies can build in America.

It's currently hard to get Americans to work at ANY wage. I went to a jack in the box the other evening and it had a sign on the drive through saying "closed for the day, what time we close each day depends on if we can get anybody on night crew to come in" or something like that. And it's not unique to low wage jobs. Jobs paying $18-24 an hour cant hire enough either.

Plus all the environmental regulations in building any kind of factory which has to meet ever stricter C02 emissions standards, paperwork, risk of lawsuits etc involved with American employees you just dont have to worry about in China or Mexico. It's not even as simple as you make it out.

The fact we have any manufacturing left at all is kind of crazy really, there are so many barriers to it.

At the end of the day a factory is not "environmentally friendly". As such, better get used to them not existing here. Already so many local factories have closed under environmental and wage pressure and moved to Mexico just in my lifetime. A smokestack just is not allowed. So bye bye, (relatively high paying) local pipe factory that has been here for decades, for example. The sad thing is most people will say "good riddance" about it. "Oh didn't that place have a lot of accidents? I am glad they are gone" Or whatever. They all work at the hospital paid by Uncle Sam's medicare LOL. Too bad they dont actually produce anything and thats not sustainable...

In conclusion, we are so screwed LOL.

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