Auto Stop/Start may be going away (per EPA)

[HeyBales]

Every once in awhile I'll take a city traffic route at the wrong time, or highway had a wreck and so many are on major side streets, that it turns into stop/go scenario constantly.

At those moments the hybrid feels like just an enhanced auto-start/stop system.
Accelerating with those around me the ICE has to be on.
About the time I could power by HVB I'm braking for a left/right turn in the lane, or next light, grabbing the pads along with regen, and accel again.
So barely any coasting time to regen, and not much to use the EV with anyway.

Only benefit I get during those times it seems is the immediate takeoff, compared to a pause, at least the EV gets going AS the ICE is starting.
I know I'm getting the brief coast down benefit, but still, I think how annoying it would be with that pause on AS/S.
Maybe that's why I'm seeing more and more put 1-3 car length between them and car in front at red lights - they think that system needs the space, even though they are usually so distracted they aren't even going when green. More annoying.

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[Scupking]

Dumb.

100% of vehicles need to be hybrid.
Now.

Demand a hybrid mandate.
Do it.
Do it now.

Make America AutoStop Again. And Again. And Again. And Again.

I don’t want more electric stuff or more elaborate systems. I have one power train and I like it. The hybrid is a slow version of the maverick. It has much less power and a much different power delivery.
Zero chance that a hybrid will be able to pull the same as a ecoboost up steep grades for long distance.

Interesting you say that as the 25 Maverick hybrid (at least with one of the YouTube video reviews) came out slightly faster than the EcoBoost version.

 

[MetalsGeek]

I always thought auto start/stop was just to get the EPA fuel economy numbers up because the standardized test involves some period of idling at a stop light.

 

[The Real Maverick]

The Maverick's auto start-stop got me in trouble once when it stopped at a traffic light a few blocks from my house and the battery hadn't had a chance to charge up from days of non-use. Had enough juice to start the Mav in the driveway, but not enough juice to start it a second time. I know this has been addressed (supposedly) in a recall, but I haven't had it done. I replaced the crap Ford battery with a good AGM years ago and I also keep it on a battery tender.

That is a mistake and obviously inconsistent with the design intent.
Auto-stop is supposed to be automatically disabled in certain conditions, battery below x % is one of them.

 

[BankableWhee]

Hi Everyone!
It seems that there is quite a bit of conflict on this thread, so I wanted to make sure that everyone is educated on the federal code that discusses Auto Start/Stop. If anybody is interested in doing their own research into the Code of Federal Regulations, you can access it in its entirety at www.ecfr.gov. If you find anything else that I have missed, make sure to post it!

So, what does the current federal code say about Auto Start/Stop on light and medium duty vehicles? --Based on what I could find, it actually doesn't say a whole lot.

40 CFR 86.1869-12 mentions "engine idle start-stop" functionality as an example of a feature that is eligible for "off-cycle CO2 reducing technologies." These technologies allow auto manufacturers to generate CO2 credits that they can then use and apply in calculating equivalent CO2 production, I think for average fleet emissions and something or other. (Feel free to reply to my post if you have some better primary sources on what auto makers use these CO2 credits for.).

The CFR provides several different approved methods and technologies for generating CO2 credits such as high-efficiency exterior auto lighting (LEDs), waste heat recovery (recovering exhaust heat in the battery coolant to regulate the battery temperature), solar panels, active aerodynamic improvements (engine bay aero shutters), active transmission warm-up, active engine warm-up, and thermal control technologies like glass or glazing.

Based on what I can tell by searching "Engine idle start-stop" on www.ecfr.gov, this is the only mention in the Code of Federal Regulations of engine start-stop systems. They are mentioned a few more times in the Federal Register, but the CFR is the important one because it codefies a lot of the policies and language released in the FR.

Based on my understanding of the CFR's language, it does not require auto manufacturers to use engine start-stop technology. Realistically, by incentivizing its use to create a CO2 credit, auto manufacturers can apply this credit to offset the production of other vehicles in their fleet that might produce more CO2.

An oversimplified example: Ford's F150 is an awesome and top-selling vehicle, and I imagine that Ford has a big interest in continuing to sell as many awesome F150s as they possibly can. By producing cars and trucks that utilize these energy credits hand-in-hand with producing energy-efficient vehicles, their sales of a Hybrid Maverick that gets 40mpg can enable them to produce and sell more F150s that get only 23mpg. If the CFR didn't provide any access to CO2 credits, it could impact Ford's ability to build and sell F150s because they might have to focus even more on tradeoffs between power and efficiency for the full-sized truck.

 

[The Real Maverick]

I had a rental F-150 with auto stop.

 

[Snox801]

Interesting you say that as the 25 Maverick hybrid (at least with one of the YouTube video reviews) came out slightly faster than the EcoBoost version.

I think you are missing what I’m saying. In not saying from stoplight to light the ecoboost will be faster. But they just have no way around highway hauling being better. Eventually the small capacity battery runs out then you are left with just a na engine. Same reason the hybrid doesn’t shine for freeway driving without hauling. Once the battery is depleted then it’s NA only.
Of course an electric engine will help but it needs powering.
second thought is you can’t gain anything with a tune for a hybrid but I did with my ecoboost.

 

[Bill Quattlebaum]

I disconnected mine and now I enjoy driving the truck so much more! If it's not broken, don't fix it.

 

[HeyBales]

I always thought auto start/stop was just to get the EPA fuel economy numbers up because the standardized test involves some period of idling at a stop light.

Huge credit for it to be included, because nothing in the test run shows the benefit of it.

So drop the credit, which drops the incentive (except what marketing and consumer demand may cause).

Since the numbers for a whole fleet of models are combined in some figures, I'm wondering if the extra hybrids were tipping the scale enough there, and so some makers have been dropping the AS/S anyway. Not worth the extra expenses when it is done nicely.
Of course - is Ford's done nicely?
Does AC and heat continue to work for 60-90 seconds?
Is alternator/AC disabled on startups to reduce load?
Starter & battery beefier?

 

[TheSEARCH]

I sill say the start stop while it does reduce gas use hence less co2. BUT in the long run with more battery replacement and starter replacement and the co2 to make those things over all it increases the co2 output.

PLUS the added cost and inconvenience of having a bad starter or battery. SOONER than without the start/stop .

The goal is to use less oil for vehicles. To me it increases it.

 

[d7602002]

This will get probably get me some negative replies, maybe. I turn it off for two reasons. I'm not worried about the little bit of gas I might save, and I really couldn't care less about the pollution of the planet. So, yeah.

 

[colinl]

BUT in the long run with more battery replacement and starter replacement

it's neither of those at all.

it's the fact that starting the engine is hard on the engine, and stopping it when it's hot is *very hard* on the bearings in the turbocharger center section.

I see your profile says hybrid. autostop is essential to hybrid electric vehicles so this discussion is only germane to gas- and diesel-only vehicles.

 

[TheSEARCH]

it's neither of those at all.

it's the fact that starting the engine is hard on the engine, and stopping it when it's hot is *very hard* on the bearings in the turbocharger center section.

I see your profile says hybrid. autostop is essential to hybrid electric vehicles so this discussion is only germane to gas- and diesel-only vehicles.

Quite aware which Mav this applies to. I had it on my previous car Ecosport. Yes it will wear out the battery and starter motor faster ZERO doubt.

 

[shadow76]

Excited to see this. I hope it's true.
Now if we could get the emissions standards relaxed so we could go back to building awesome cars again.

Prefer not to see the air I breathe.

 

[Sovande]

This will get probably get me some negative replies, maybe. I turn it off for two reasons. I'm not worried about the little bit of gas I might save, and I really couldn't care less about the pollution of the planet. So, yeah.

I was wondering when the dumbest reply would pop up. Congrats.

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