See previous posts in this thread. It's 88 octane. E15. Not E88 - 88% ethanol.
88 sounds like 85 so they see 88 and say E88, not the 88 octane that it is. People are confused by the difference and this was cleared up earlier.
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88 sounds like 85 so they see 88 and say E88, not the 88 octane that it is. People are confused by the difference and this was cleared up earlier.
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Lots to sift through in this thread and a bit surprised there’s been no reference to Sunoco’s ‘Dial Your Octane’ at the pump option.
Not sure if this is any different, now, than the ‘pick 1 of these options’ we currently find in most stations.
It’s attached, for those thinking “what the heck is he talking about?”…
Not sure if this is any different, now, than the ‘pick 1 of these options’ we currently find in most stations.
It’s attached, for those thinking “what the heck is he talking about?”…
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Every pump at every station with more than 2 choices is a blending pump.
They only haul regular & premium to gas stations. Any "mid grade" is a blend of the two.
In the corn belt they have "blender pumps" with one tank being regular and one tank being E85.
You usually can't pick an exact blend but there will be as many as 7 buttons.
E10, E15, E25, E40, E50, E70, E85.
I don't think they really caught on, so never really proliferated. I think most people go "all in" or nothing.
But in my over the road testing I found a "sweet spot" at 25% ethanol. Good MPG and Lower price by enough to make it worthwhile.
They only haul regular & premium to gas stations. Any "mid grade" is a blend of the two.
In the corn belt they have "blender pumps" with one tank being regular and one tank being E85.
You usually can't pick an exact blend but there will be as many as 7 buttons.
E10, E15, E25, E40, E50, E70, E85.
I don't think they really caught on, so never really proliferated. I think most people go "all in" or nothing.
But in my over the road testing I found a "sweet spot" at 25% ethanol. Good MPG and Lower price by enough to make it worthwhile.
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No Sunoco stations in my state.Lots to sift through in this thread and a bit surprised there’s been no reference to Sunoco’s ‘Dial Your Octane’ at the pump option.
Not sure if this is any different, now, than the ‘pick 1 of these options’ we currently find in most stations.
It’s attached, for those thinking “what the heck is he talking about?”…
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Whoa, Wayne's!This is a place in town that works on small engines and has no ethanol on all 3 grades. It's 5 miles out of my way so I only go there to get gas for my lawn mower and snowblower, maybe 3 times a year. Picture is from Google maps. Prices are usually ¢5 higher.
Not that I go there as I get E15 at Woodmans on Milwaukee most of the time and my no ethanol gas for small engines at KwikTrip on American Parkway.
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I use E15 almost exclusively, no real word discernable difference from E10 or even E0 gas.
On the other hand, it did get cold.
I took my truck out of a six week storage and drove it a few hundred miles this weekend, only 36mpg instead of 46mpg. Of course it was 30 degrees instead of 75 so I will chalk up the difference to temp rather than ethanol. Yes I can still get 46mpg with E15.
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You sound to be more or less neutral on the topic and sound interested in knowing how things really work.
I can clarify a few things.
NeedForSteve, said:
1. Agreed, Ethanol is not junk
2. Ethanol has hygroscopic properties and therefore can hold moisture in suspension
No it can not. Sand in stirred water is a suspension. Stop the stirring and the sand will settle out by gravity. Ethanol can not and will not do this. Liquor even wine is a good example of an ethanol / water mix. No matter how long a bottle sits, the ethanol will not separate out Ever see a wine bottle that said "Shake well before use."? Not me. Because they don't exist. Because water will not separate from ethanol, except by distillation (or zeolite but that's another topic).
close to or in contact with materials that can corrode or degrade due to moisture exposure.
No. It does not work like this.
This is where Ethanol gets it's "corrosive" reputation and it's important to note this.
No. It's about the acids. But acids don't "grow" in the tank. Ethanol is anti-septic. It's the #1 ingredient in the now famous hand sanitizer! Acids can form alongside ethanol during the fermentation process when ethanol percents are low enough to support life. But refineries take a lot of step to reduce, remove, and neutralize acids before shipment. A trace amount make make it to your tank. A trace amount.
Ethanol does not make "premium" fuel, higher concentrations of octane and additives does.
YES. It LITERALLY does. No word play. It is literally a commonly used ingredient to make higher octane rated fuels higher octane rated.
Ethanol IS an ingredient. "Octane" is a rating, a score, NOT an ingredient.
Octane #87 at the pump tells you nothing about the actual ingredients. It tells you this fuel will "behave the same as a 87% octane 13% heptane blend when put under compression".
You can have motor fuel with 0% octane get a high octane number because it behaves the same under compression. Ethanol is a good example of this.
The maverick, to my knowledge, has neither a Flex Fuel sensor or any FFV data in it's factory PCM program. Therefore, it can only "adjust" to lower octane fuel by knocking until the PCM pulls timing and adjusts Dynamic compression via VCT.
It actually looks at the oxygen sensors in the exhaust. Seeing more oxygen as the result of burning ethanol gives positive feedback to the system to add more fuel which is the correct move to make. It does not need to look at the fuel. It figures things out in minutes to hours by looking at the exhaust. A fuel sensor in the tank allows more rapid adjustments. A nice to have, but not a must have piece of equipment.
"Octane" is a hydrocarbon ingredient of gasoline.
As stated above it can be, but not necessarily. Ethanol: 115 Octane, zero octane molecules.
If the engine is tuned for it. and has enough injector to cover the additional need. and has a high enough dynamic CP to take advantage of the higher octane rating.
And that is what I've been trying to state: Most STOCK equipment has the ability to autotune up to 70% ethanol.
I can clarify a few things.
NeedForSteve, said:
1. Agreed, Ethanol is not junk
2. Ethanol has hygroscopic properties and therefore can hold moisture in suspension
No it can not. Sand in stirred water is a suspension. Stop the stirring and the sand will settle out by gravity. Ethanol can not and will not do this. Liquor even wine is a good example of an ethanol / water mix. No matter how long a bottle sits, the ethanol will not separate out Ever see a wine bottle that said "Shake well before use."? Not me. Because they don't exist. Because water will not separate from ethanol, except by distillation (or zeolite but that's another topic).
close to or in contact with materials that can corrode or degrade due to moisture exposure.
No. It does not work like this.
This is where Ethanol gets it's "corrosive" reputation and it's important to note this.
No. It's about the acids. But acids don't "grow" in the tank. Ethanol is anti-septic. It's the #1 ingredient in the now famous hand sanitizer! Acids can form alongside ethanol during the fermentation process when ethanol percents are low enough to support life. But refineries take a lot of step to reduce, remove, and neutralize acids before shipment. A trace amount make make it to your tank. A trace amount.
Ethanol does not make "premium" fuel, higher concentrations of octane and additives does.
YES. It LITERALLY does. No word play. It is literally a commonly used ingredient to make higher octane rated fuels higher octane rated.
Ethanol IS an ingredient. "Octane" is a rating, a score, NOT an ingredient.
Octane #87 at the pump tells you nothing about the actual ingredients. It tells you this fuel will "behave the same as a 87% octane 13% heptane blend when put under compression".
You can have motor fuel with 0% octane get a high octane number because it behaves the same under compression. Ethanol is a good example of this.
The maverick, to my knowledge, has neither a Flex Fuel sensor or any FFV data in it's factory PCM program. Therefore, it can only "adjust" to lower octane fuel by knocking until the PCM pulls timing and adjusts Dynamic compression via VCT.
It actually looks at the oxygen sensors in the exhaust. Seeing more oxygen as the result of burning ethanol gives positive feedback to the system to add more fuel which is the correct move to make. It does not need to look at the fuel. It figures things out in minutes to hours by looking at the exhaust. A fuel sensor in the tank allows more rapid adjustments. A nice to have, but not a must have piece of equipment.
"Octane" is a hydrocarbon ingredient of gasoline.
As stated above it can be, but not necessarily. Ethanol: 115 Octane, zero octane molecules.
If the engine is tuned for it. and has enough injector to cover the additional need. and has a high enough dynamic CP to take advantage of the higher octane rating.
And that is what I've been trying to state: Most STOCK equipment has the ability to autotune up to 70% ethanol.
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Technically you are both right. Octane is what makes premium fuel premium in a way, but not all the way. Ethanol is how how we prefer to add additional cheap octane to fuel now instead of tetraethyl lead.
When I go to the rack to fill my fuel tanker, if want 87 octane E10 I put 900 gallons of 83 octane base gas and 100 gallons of ethanol in the compartment. The ethanol raises the octane to 87.
If I want 87 octane E0 I just get 500 gallons of 83 octane base gas and 500 gallons of premium, ie 91 octane. The 91 octane uses something else more expensive than ethanol to raise the octane level. The 50/50 mix of 83 and 91 of course gives you the 87 octane you want with no ethanol.
Now if I want 93 octane premium, I get 900 gallons of 91 octane premium and add 100 gallons of ethanol.
Obviously 850 gallons of 83 octane base gas and 150 gallons of ethanol would work out to 88 octane fuel. This is the fuel that I put in my Maverick.
When I go to the rack to fill my fuel tanker, if want 87 octane E10 I put 900 gallons of 83 octane base gas and 100 gallons of ethanol in the compartment. The ethanol raises the octane to 87.
If I want 87 octane E0 I just get 500 gallons of 83 octane base gas and 500 gallons of premium, ie 91 octane. The 91 octane uses something else more expensive than ethanol to raise the octane level. The 50/50 mix of 83 and 91 of course gives you the 87 octane you want with no ethanol.
Now if I want 93 octane premium, I get 900 gallons of 91 octane premium and add 100 gallons of ethanol.
Obviously 850 gallons of 83 octane base gas and 150 gallons of ethanol would work out to 88 octane fuel. This is the fuel that I put in my Maverick.
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Sure that's not just related to it getting colder? A lot of variables determine mileage for any given tank of gas. When the weather's been consistent, I've noticed no real difference between 87 (which is up to 10% ethanol anyway) and 88 (15% ethanol)
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This has become a really weird hill
Well, if you need some reading while all alone on that hill, you could read the manual, and then burn it in your fire to stay warm, while disregarding it and following the advice on here.
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I'm sure someone would let me know I tore the page out incorrectly and used the wrong lighter.Well, if you need some reading while all alone on that hill, you could read the manual, and then burn it in your fire to stay warm, while disregarding it and following the advice on here.
You did... You were supposed to use 88 octane lighter fluid, not 88% ethanol (E88)! No wonder the manual didn't burn right. Clearly you're not one of the firemen from Fahrenheit 451!
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