Ford delays new EV pickup to 2027

[Snox801]

What article? If California does that they elected those reps, if they don't like it elect new ones. That's why it's called REPRESENTATIVE government

I never argued with that. I was arguing the fact you clearly said no government is mandating it. When in fact they are. Which would require a oh crap I was wrong about that. But nope. You could even be wrong and disagree. I don’t like them mandating it at any level. But they have that right at the state level. And people ah e the right to vote in new reps or move.

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[Gonzo chris]

Ok what happens when you don’t do what the government says?
They take your money or freedom at gun point. And what you fail to understand is the difference between laws and mandates. All what you have said about emissions is not a single law passed by congress and signed by the president.
So one of use seems to understand the difference the other not so much

So regulations are fake? Then the companies shouldn't follow them. Are you a lawyer? So we shouldn't have to do what the government says ? I'm confused. They shouldn't be allowed to arrest people? Yes the current court is going to allow corporations to self regulate ( sure they'll look out for the public good ....) or whatever the members of Congress they own want.

 

[Snox801]

So regulations are fake? Then the companies shouldn't follow them. Are you a lawyer? So we shouldn't have to do what the government says ? I'm confused. They shouldn't be allowed to arrest people? Yes the current court is going to allow corporations to self regulate ( sure they'll look out for the public good ....) or whatever the members of Congress they own want.

I think you don’t understand what I’m saying. Not that we should t have laws or enforce them. But the fact that all the emissions regulations are not truly laws. Laws must be passed by congress and signed by the president. Non of the emissions were. They are made by the epa a non elected body. So no they should not be able to enforce them. If our congress did the job they could actually pass the required laws one by one. But they don’t.
That way I would be happy.
The correct courts actually got it correct. All they said is you can’t let one agency run all over passing laws. It works to protect us. Same works for is a president gets elected and said to every agency everything goes. Agency only are supposed to have the power to enforce laws not create them. Much like the epa does now.

 

[Gonzo chris]

I think you don’t understand what I’m saying. Not that we should t have laws or enforce them. But the fact that all the emissions regulations are not truly laws. Laws must be passed by congress and signed by the president. Non of the emissions were. They are made by the epa a non elected body. So no they should not be able to enforce them. If our congress did the job they could actually pass the required laws one by one. But they don’t.
That way I would be happy.
The correct courts actually got it correct. All they said is you can’t let one agency run all over passing laws. It works to protect us. Same works for is a president gets elected and said to every agency everything goes. Agency only are supposed to have the power to enforce laws not create them. Much like the epa does now.

Blame Nixon I guess. You know that means no emissions or basically any regs if you're relying on congress but I guess that's the point. The clean air and water act were passed long ago by congress. Never happen today'. So congress will vote in each and every line in every regulation or give broader power with more general language?
So you're against all executive orders I guess? Like "remain in Mexico" ( which I agreed with FWIW)?

 

[Snox801]

Blame Nixon I guess. You know that means no emissions or basically any regs if you're relying on congress but I guess that's the point. The clean air and water act were passed long ago by congress. Never happen today'. So congress will vote in each and every line in every regulation or give broader power with more general language?
So you're against all executive orders I guess? Like "remain in Mexico" ( which I agreed with FWIW)?

Correct it will work but force law makers to do the job. Not these huge broad actions.
as for executive order you again are correct. I don’t like when any of them do it. Although the argument could be made for the remain in Mexico because security of the nation is one of the few outline uses of executive actions.
That being said I disagree with it also. Those action were meant more for war time. No passing garbage you can’t build enough support for.
If we did it the proper way we would have less problems I believe. Things that get passed would have to be done with better plans and agreement from most.

 

[Snox801]

As for emissions we certainly would. We would get a candidate that ran on how dirty things became. This pass a law to say add cats, no lead in fuel. They would gain broad support from constituents and get it passed that way only the ones the “people” deem reasonable get passed. It also works the other way. You can’t simply get one person In charged removing everything at a whim.
It would also remove all the waffling back and forth. Like the ev mandates they keep going back and forth on.

 

[Gonzo chris]

As for emissions we certainly would. We would get a candidate that ran on how dirty things became. This pass a law to say add cats, no lead in fuel. They would gain broad support from constituents and get it passed that way only the ones the “people” deem reasonable get passed. It also works the other way. You can’t simply get one person In charged removing everything at a whim.
It would also remove all the waffling back and forth. Like the ev mandates they keep going back and forth on.

That's what happened in 1970, Congress approved the creation of the EPA and Nixon approved it. Respectfully disagree that you can have a new law to regulate every pollutant or environmental threat. The average person, even smart ones of which we have a limited supply these days, isn't educated on the subject sufficiently. It would be like letting the average person steer our medical research ( analogy, I know the differences) . I get the blue collar ( that's me as well) chip on the shoulder distrust of experts but IMHO that's largely paranoia. Plus a large chunk of the population doesn't care about anyone but themselves and the thing with pollution is those peoples behavior effects everyone else. If someone wants to weigh 400lbs. , smoke and drink 5w-30 I don't care. Doesn't effect me ( well maybe a bit as they are a burden on the health care system) .
Have to run and get a new clevis pin then hit the beach, Cheers!

 

[OneAlienBoi]

Yep… And I’m guessing the first two configurations of the low cost CE1 platform will be a small pickup and a small van, both of which will be very successful in the commercial market (Ford Pro customers). Presumably consumer versions, including an entry level vehicle, will follow.

Unlike GM, Ford has now figured out cost and size are the key to a successful EV, so that’s the development focus. You have to give them credit for pivoting from another expensive large vehicle like the Explorer EV to small, efficient and cheaper EVs that also have commercial appeal.

At the same time anyone, including people here, can buy an ICE vehicle like the EB Maverick, if you choose to do so. The overall strategy is pretty good.

Yeah, this is exactly what I want to see with a brand. Where they're making compelling EVs and hybrids, but you also have the option of things like a V8 mustang, which Ford's CEO says isn't going away ever unless they're forced to get rid of it. Just a really cool lineup. Make everything and let's customers decide.

 

[OleFordGuy]

Another decent realistic article related to the thread discussion. Similar to Toyota's stance, this one is from Honda executive's stance.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/othe...n&cvid=8612497fb34f465aa7fbe5db40361d93&ei=17

(Excerpt)
'The customer is always right'
In an appearance during Monterey Car Week, first reported by The Drive, American Honda President and CEO Kazuhiro Takizawa and Honda Global Executive Vice President Shinji Aoyama explained that while the sales of EVs are growing, the slowdown of sales growth is because of the infrastructure to support EVs is not growing alongside it fast enough.

In essence, customers will not be drawn to EVs, no matter how much of a discount automakers provide, if fast, convenient charging is either a hassle to find near their homes or workplace or leaves owners waiting on blood-sucking "charger hogs".

“You can’t force the customer to change their mind, really, and to some degree [you can incentivize] them but we just can’t force the people living in, say, the midwest, with no charging stations,” said Takizawa. “Even with incentives they will not change from ICE [Internal-Combustion Engine] to BEV [Bac. I believe it will be very difficult to force people to go for it. We need to prepare the ecosystem gradually and let them migrate little by little.

 

[Guv]

The future will be comprised of more and more sophisticated hybrids.
Hybrid battery performance gained by EV technology advances will make Hybrids even harder to beat.
Optimized ICE range extenders would cancel out the worries and inconvenience’s associated with EV’s and allow real world economy and performance that could make a lot of drivers happy.
Just my opinion

 

[Snox801]

That's what happened in 1970, Congress approved the creation of the EPA and Nixon approved it. Respectfully disagree that you can have a new law to regulate every pollutant or environmental threat. The average person, even smart ones of which we have a limited supply these days, isn't educated on the subject sufficiently. It would be like letting the average person steer our medical research ( analogy, I know the differences) . I get the blue collar ( that's me as well) chip on the shoulder distrust of experts but IMHO that's largely paranoia. Plus a large chunk of the population doesn't care about anyone but themselves and the thing with pollution is those peoples behavior effects everyone else. If someone wants to weigh 400lbs. , smoke and drink 5w-30 I don't care. Doesn't effect me ( well maybe a bit as they are a burden on the health care system) .
Have to run and get a new clevis pin then hit the beach, Cheers!

And yet the epa is enacting laws that should not be legal. In fact that’s what chevron was about. You can’t create a agency to then get what you want done. The courts got it right same with the atf.
So apparently blue collar common sense people can’t figure things out but life long drains on the system can?

Out so called experts manage to mess things up just as bad so why not? EPA? It’s been proven by companies like banks, Livernois, and othe engineering companies that we have much better ways to clean up emissions than say pvc system but here we are.

Not to mention covid. Ya the experts sure got that one right! Lol
GTFO with that garbage.
Run your idea of needing government to tell you what to do out to the extreme. And see what that gets. Again you fail to understand how the government was supposed to work if you would read the federalist papers. These things should be handled by the state. So each state could in fact pass emissions themselves.
You seem to think it’s the emission themselves I have issues with it is not it’s the federal government doing what they shouldn’t. What would be wrong with each state passing the laws as intended?
Even the federal government passing them how they should. Not only am I correct with saying the epa has no right but the courts agree.

 

[Timothyd]

Party On!!
We'll just put the cost on our grandkid's card and let them worry about paying the bill.

To late

 

[Gonzo chris]

And yet the epa is enacting laws that should not be legal. In fact that’s what chevron was about. You can’t create a agency to then get what you want done. The courts got it right same with the atf.
So apparently blue collar common sense people can’t figure things out but life long drains on the system can?

Out so called experts manage to mess things up just as bad so why not? EPA? It’s been proven by companies like banks, Livernois, and othe engineering companies that we have much better ways to clean up emissions than say pvc system but here we are.

Not to mention covid. Ya the experts sure got that one right! Lol
GTFO with that garbage.
Run your idea of needing government to tell you what to do out to the extreme. And see what that gets. Again you fail to understand how the government was supposed to work if you would read the federalist papers. These things should be handled by the state. So each state could in fact pass emissions themselves.
You seem to think it’s the emission themselves I have issues with it is not it’s the federal government doing what they shouldn’t. What would be wrong with each state passing the laws as intended?
Even the federal government passing them how they should. Not only am I correct with saying the epa has no right but the courts agree.

I know we'll go down to the local watering Hole and find the first guy with it don't tread on me sticker on the back of his truck and will ask him how to handle medical things. Yeah I don't even talk about covid with people like that sorry. Was it run perfect? no DJT did mess a lot up but he tried. It was a new virus hindsight is 20/20 and you can't view the alternate reality. So if worldwide they did nothing and 10 times as many people died would that have been better? Don't even know why you're bringing that subject up other than it's a favorite amongst those with The Old triangle hats..... I guess they should ask you and some of the boys when you're loading up the trailer what the nox level should be eh? PCV valve? Is this a personal obsession? Why go into the weeds? Personally I don't care if a car has one or not. I think the government should set an emission standard and how the company reaches it is their business. If Ford can build a better mouse trap without one then fine.
Listen I understand a lot more about how the government was supposed to work then you understand. It isn't 1800. The world is a lot more complicated today there are a ton of things that don't follow the original outline. But the founding fathers were smart enough to make the Constitution flexible and have things like amendments. It is not the ten commandments and it's not carved in stone. I do get the anger cuz I do know a lot of guys, some I work with, who think they know more about everything than the so-called experts but that's really just Petty jealousy usually. When they need surgery they usually go to a surgeon not the guy who does their brakes or oil changes....

 

[Gonzo chris]

And yet the epa is enacting laws that should not be legal. In fact that’s what chevron was about. You can’t create a agency to then get what you want done. The courts got it right same with the atf.
So apparently blue collar common sense people can’t figure things out but life long drains on the system can?

Out so called experts manage to mess things up just as bad so why not? EPA? It’s been proven by companies like banks, Livernois, and othe engineering companies that we have much better ways to clean up emissions than say pvc system but here we are.

Not to mention covid. Ya the experts sure got that one right! Lol
GTFO with that garbage.
Run your idea of needing government to tell you what to do out to the extreme. And see what that gets. Again you fail to understand how the government was supposed to work if you would read the federalist papers. These things should be handled by the state. So each state could in fact pass emissions themselves.
You seem to think it’s the emission themselves I have issues with it is not it’s the federal government doing what they shouldn’t. What would be wrong with each state passing the laws as intended?
Even the federal government passing them how they should. Not only am I correct with saying the epa has no right but the courts agree.

No point in the conversation I'm a blue collar guy but I'm also educated. I don't have that chip on the shoulder. Also I'm not a fundamentalist I'm just for What works. I would rather ideally make things work better than follow what I think is the way things are supposed to be but the results suck.
Yes the blue collar guys I know only get their science from Facebook or cable news which tells them what they want to hear. Which is usually funneled to them from big companies that have vested interests in making things that way. It's the dunning Kruger effect, you know where smart people know there's a lot they don't know and admit it but people who aren't as smart tend to learn one thing about a subject and claim it's easy and they know everything.... But yeah most of the guys I work with a reasonably intelligent but I want to ask them what to do regarding a field of expertise they have no training in. I know all that annoying book learning, not learning by the School of hard knocks...... So you're saying that a couple of guys sitting around turning wrenches would have figured out how to invent the catalytic converter? All of the different pollutants that come out of a car's exhaust in 1960 and ways to help clean them up? Sure. Or track childhood asthma and lung issues and figure it out how they go up in proportion to how much traffic goes down the street or neighborhood they live on? Yeah I could see that happening down at the local legion on dollar Hot dog night...

 

[SLINGSHOT]

Do emission laws works?

Look at a summertime picture of downtown LA, or any large city, in the 50's and 60's, then look at one taken yesterday. Ask yourself which atmosphere you would want to breath. Which would you want your kids to breath.

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