Ford delays new EV pickup to 2027

[OleFordGuy]

Do emission laws works?

Look at a summertime picture of downtown LA, or any large city, in the 50's and 60's, then look at one taken yesterday. Ask yourself which atmosphere you would want to breath. Which would you want your kids to breath.

Yep thats nasty looking place. Sure wouldn't want to breath. Granted it was not all due to auto emissions, calif had very large industry/manufacturing base for a long time, auto's, tire, ship building, steel to name a few that largely contributed, mfg declined rapidly beginning in the 1980's if if recall correctly. Either way, auto emissions sure contributed. Many places looked similar across the US looking back from probably WW1 thru 1980's, especially big steel mfg cities. Heck I can remember breathing coal smoke every day outside playing in grammar school, the schools were heated by steam from coal furnaces back then.

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[Snox801]

I know we'll go down to the local watering Hole and find the first guy with it don't tread on me sticker on the back of his truck and will ask him how to handle medical things. Yeah I don't even talk about covid with people like that sorry. Was it run perfect? no DJT did mess a lot up but he tried. It was a new virus hindsight is 20/20 and you can't view the alternate reality. So if worldwide they did nothing and 10 times as many people died would that have been better? Don't even know why you're bringing that subject up other than it's a favorite amongst those with The Old triangle hats..... I guess they should ask you and some of the boys when you're loading up the trailer what the nox level should be eh? PCV valve? Is this a personal obsession? Why go into the weeds? Personally I don't care if a car has one or not. I think the government should set an emission standard and how the company reaches it is their business. If Ford can build a better mouse trap without one then fine.
Listen I understand a lot more about how the government was supposed to work then you understand. It isn't 1800. The world is a lot more complicated today there are a ton of things that don't follow the original outline. But the founding fathers were smart enough to make the Constitution flexible and have things like amendments. It is not the ten commandments and it's not carved in stone. I do get the anger cuz I do know a lot of guys, some I work with, who think they know more about everything than the so-called experts but that's really just Petty jealousy usually. When they need surgery they usually go to a surgeon not the guy who does their brakes or oil changes....

No I expect people to get info and do what “they” see fit many countries modded didn’t do what we did and guess what death rate was no different.
The date in which our country was founded has zero to do with it. If you did you would understand that the government didn’t have a list of things it shouldn’t do it had a list of things it couldn’t. The rest was left to the state and local. One size does not fit all. That’s why it’s so important to stick with the founding documents. You know the flexibility you talk about again that’s getting the masses to agree. It can be done but should and thankfully is rare.
None of your arguments are getting better. You keep going back to some so called expert somewhere who more than likely has never done much in the private sector or they would not need to work for the government. Those people know best.
The same people that seem to always mess up and somehow fail upwards in the government.
Yes those people should be in charge .sure

 

[Snox801]

No point in the conversation I'm a blue collar guy but I'm also educated. I don't have that chip on the shoulder. Also I'm not a fundamentalist I'm just for What works. I would rather ideally make things work better than follow what I think is the way things are supposed to be but the results suck.
Yes the blue collar guys I know only get their science from Facebook or cable news which tells them what they want to hear. Which is usually funneled to them from big companies that have vested interests in making things that way. It's the dunning Kruger effect, you know where smart people know there's a lot they don't know and admit it but people who aren't as smart tend to learn one thing about a subject and claim it's easy and they know everything.... But yeah most of the guys I work with a reasonably intelligent but I want to ask them what to do regarding a field of expertise they have no training in. I know all that annoying book learning, not learning by the School of hard knocks...... So you're saying that a couple of guys sitting around turning wrenches would have figured out how to invent the catalytic converter? All of the different pollutants that come out of a car's exhaust in 1960 and ways to help clean them up? Sure. Or track childhood asthma and lung issues and figure it out how they go up in proportion to how much traffic goes down the street or neighborhood they live on? Yeah I could see that happening down at the local legion on dollar Hot dog night...

This cracks me up I’m also am educated, many years, blue collar yep. Started and run my own business.
So your high ground is just level field.
As for your idea wrench turners can’t figure things out you do realize the largest advance recently in efficiency of diesels was exactly that a guy turning wrenches? Invented speed of air pistons.
oh and let’s not forget the federal government spent incredible amounts of money and time on experts. All the highest educated people and resources they could to figure out flight. All those experts said it simply can’t happen. Then within a year two guys that turned wrenches figure it out in a field. Clearly the governments got this.
So your idea of things working perfectly or even better is a group of people deciding from one central spot what’s best for people 1500 miles away. Got it.
Btw I don’t have cable or tv at all in my house. Never have or would have Facebook.
You honestly sound like a guy who has been educated in the system that only looks at people higher on the ladder to fix your problems.

 

[OleFordGuy]

got no idea who your referring to or what your talking about Snox801. If your referring to anything I've posted let me know and I'll try to figure out what your talking about and let ya know what i think.

 

[Gonzo chris]

Yep thats nasty looking place. Sure wouldn't want to breath. Granted it was not all due to auto emissions, calif had very large industry/manufacturing base for a long time, auto's, tire, ship building, steel to name a few that largely contributed, mfg declined rapidly beginning in the 1980's if if recall correctly. Either way, auto emissions sure contributed. Many places looked similar across the US looking back from probably WW1 thru 1980's, especially big steel mfg cities. Heck I can remember breathing coal smoke every day outside playing in grammar school, the schools were heated by steam from coal furnaces back then.

Ya manufacturing emissions were regulated also.so generally same thing

 

[Gonzo chris]

This cracks me up I’m also am educated, many years, blue collar yep. Started and run my own business.
So your high ground is just level field.
As for your idea wrench turners can’t figure things out you do realize the largest advance recently in efficiency of diesels was exactly that a guy turning wrenches? Invented speed of air pistons.
oh and let’s not forget the federal government spent incredible amounts of money and time on experts. All the highest educated people and resources they could to figure out flight. All those experts said it simply can’t happen. Then within a year two guys that turned wrenches figure it out in a field. Clearly the governments got this.
So your idea of things working perfectly or even better is a group of people deciding from one central spot what’s best for people 1500 miles away. Got it.
Btw I don’t have cable or tv at all in my house. Never have or would have Facebook.
You honestly sound like a guy who has been educated in the system that only looks at people higher on the ladder to fix your problems.

Sorry boss rebuilt and replaced all the plumbing, electrical and most else in my house. Fix my own cars etc ...I'm just smart enough to know I don't know everything, clearly you're not. You use electricity? Ever heard of watts? Thank Scottish engineer James Watts, ohms? German physicist Georg Ohm. Look at the internal combustion engine- invented by engineers ( largely German) . You see a lot of everyday things we use were figured out by smart, educated people , we're just used to the and take it for granted. Would you go up 80 stories in a skyscraper that was designed and built without any professional architects or engineers? Fly in a jet designed by a couple of plumbers in a shed?
How much money did the government spend in "figuring out flight"? Uneducated people can be smart but that doesn't mean higher education has no value. Would you let an electrician perform surgery on a loved one?

 

[Gonzo chris]

Do emission laws works?

Look at a summertime picture of downtown LA, or any large city, in the 50's and 60's, then look at one taken yesterday. Ask yourself which atmosphere you would want to breath. Which would you want your kids to breath.

Let's not forget we had rivers actually on fire and burning for days .
https://www.google.com/search?clien...786&dpr=2.63#vhid=s5XU7fgNZCD6VM&vssid=mosaic

 

[Gonzo chris]

No I expect people to get info and do what “they” see fit many countries modded didn’t do what we did and guess what death rate was no different.
The date in which our country was founded has zero to do with it. If you did you would understand that the government didn’t have a list of things it shouldn’t do it had a list of things it couldn’t. The rest was left to the state and local. One size does not fit all. That’s why it’s so important to stick with the founding documents. You know the flexibility you talk about again that’s getting the masses to agree. It can be done but should and thankfully is rare.
None of your arguments are getting better. You keep going back to some so called expert somewhere who more than likely has never done much in the private sector or they would not need to work for the government. Those people know best.
The same people that seem to always mess up and somehow fail upwards in the government.
Yes those people should be in charge .sure

"So called expert" ...lol. You only focus on what you see as failures. It's like how people only call the cable company when the picture is out not when it looks great. Oh boy , clearly you're just a simple anti guvment tin foil hatter...... Ya ya everyone who works for the government is a loser who couldn't cut it in the private sector. Get over yourself. Do you not realize that must of the "so called experts" don't work as government employees? They work for private institutions that do some work for the government.
"You know those rocket scientists probably don't know a 2" trailer hitch from their left one right Jeb?"

 

[Chewy]

This cracks me up I’m also am educated

 

[Snox801]

"So called expert" ...lol. You only focus on what you see as failures. It's like how people only call the cable company when the picture is out not when it looks great. Oh boy , clearly you're just a simple anti guvment tin foil hatter...... Ya ya everyone who works for the government is a loser who couldn't cut it in the private sector. Get over yourself. Do you not realize that must of the "so called experts" don't work as government employees? They work for private institutions that do some work for the government.
"You know those rocket scientists probably don't know a 2" trailer hitch from their left one right Jeb?"

Ok so give me some success story’s.
The fact of the matter is the vast majority of all innovation comes from the privet sector. Why? Because the money. The old saying did not come around because it’s the exception to the rule. Those who can do those who can’t teach. Same with government jobs.

Your so called experts that you keep referring to seem to screw things up. Much like your understanding of how the government should work. I’m not anti government like you keep trying to paint me. I’m anti federal gov. Because it’s well laid out in how it’s supposed to work.
You clearly are a person who thinks they clearly need some sort of nanny to watch out for them or get other to do what you and them seem fit.
Just pointing out that you have yet to even acknowledge that I’ve pointed out several things that have come about without your so called experts ran by the government. Show me a successful one?
Any one that doesn’t end in government waste, bloat and failure. Heck as we speak they are unable to bring people home from space so the private sector guy is having to send up his stuff to help. Sure glad the government experts figured out how to reuse rockets and do it at a fraction of the cost.
Oh wait I must have made that up because no wrench turner would ever be able to do that without the federal government.

 

[Snox801]

Let's not forget we had rivers actually on fire and burning for days .
https://www.google.com/search?clien...786&dpr=2.63#vhid=s5XU7fgNZCD6VM&vssid=mosaic

You’re under the impression that that could have never happened without the federal government. You also seem to not be able to explain how if it’s so much cleaner since your government cleaned it up why is we now for the first time have a shorter life expectancy and much higher rates of cancer in young Americans. Maybe your experts are not quite as good as you think.
And until you decide to hold china and other countries that mine your materials for batteries accountable to the same standards the whole point is moot.
Keep on being totally ok with women and children being worked as slaves to mine your lithium. But the good news is you have much cleaner air.

 

[Snox801]

Well since he made the point that he is educated. Thus he must be smarter than others here. My pint was I also have two degrees. So does that make my arguments superior to his? No let them stand on merit.

 

[Snox801]

got no idea who your referring to or what your talking about Snox801. If your referring to anything I've posted let me know and I'll try to figure out what your talking about and let ya know what i think.

I don’t have anything much to say about anything you posted more towards gonzo. What you posted has merit. He seems to think that if anyone doesn’t agree with how to handle it they simply don’t understand.
I agree the air was terrible and so was the waters. The issue I have is with when is it enough and how to move forward. So in short no disrespect or disagreement with what you posted.

In fact I know Chris has heard me say this, but these discussions are actually quite interesting and insightful. I would bet he would agree.
That’s what makes these forums great. I in fact take a lot of what you guys post and reevaluate my stance on things.
Chris and I definitely don’t agree on things. But him and I have always kept it civil and I respect the crap out of him for that.

 

[Chewy]

Well since he made the point that he is educated. Thus he must be smarter than others here. My pint was I also have two degrees. So does that make my arguments superior to his? No let them stand on merit.

Read slowly what I quoted from your post. Stating your intelligence and, at the same time, making a grammatically wrong statement, is comical at the least.

 

[Guv]

Read slowly what I quoted from your post. Stating your intelligence and, at the same time, making a grammatically wrong statement, is comical at the least.

Probably best to leave grammar out of the discussion.
This isn’t english 301.

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