Be thankful for the Mav Hybrid Power

[flashfearless]

My wife had to get a new car recently, and wound up picking out a 2024 Honda Hybrid CRV, which up until this point I have been happy with. This past weekend we made a trip from PA through MD and WV on our way to KY. This drive features several climbs to 3000 ft above sea level with a speed limit of 70.

Let's just say I wish I had taken the Maverick as this little 4 cylinder, 149 HP engine in the CRV just handle the load. It was as if I was pulling a small trailer. Climbs at 70 was causing rages of 5000 to 7500 rpm. Ultimately, we decided to back off the speed to 60 to 65 on those hills.
Oh, and this wound up getting us only 34-35 MPG.

I've driven the Maverick on this same path, with a loaded bed and had none of these issues.

Should have bought her a Maverick, but she doesn't like it.

Sponsored

 

[Hunters Edge]

She might have been happy with it's sister the Ford escape? Unfortunately majority of buyers buy or purchase on impulse. Hope you both still appreciate the Honda around town. I see more miles going on your Maverick especially on trips. You know maybe that was her plan all along?

 

[skyhawk]

Your Mav has a little 4-cylinder 162HP engine. The CRV Hybrid makes more combined HP than the Maverick. Maybe you should be checking with the Honda dealer to make sure everything is OK.

 

[TwoTone]

Can't be happier with our Accord Hybrid.

 

[Automate]

Your Mav has a little 4-cylinder 162HP engine. The CRV Hybrid makes more combined HP than the Maverick. Maybe you should be checking with the Honda dealer to make sure everything is OK.

The CRV has a smaller 2.0 liter 145HP engine. Combined HP means nothing when going up long steep hills. The battery runs down and you are left with just the ICE. The CRV is also only rated for 1000 lbs towing. An indiction of how much excess power it has.

 

[HeyBales]

Your Mav has a little 4-cylinder 162HP engine. The CRV Hybrid makes more combined HP than the Maverick. Maybe you should be checking with the Honda dealer to make sure everything is OK.

Why apples (162HP engine only) to oranges (combine HP)?

191HP combine to 204 HP (not that much difference).

162HP engine only to 145HP (if you want to believe combined difference is big deal - this is bigger, and as expressed in prior post, matters more)

https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-a...54868-2024-honda-cr-v-specifications-features

 

[OneAlienBoi]

My wife had to get a new car recently, and wound up picking out a 2024 Honda Hybrid CRV, which up until this point I have been happy with. This past weekend we made a trip from PA through MD and WV on our way to KY. This drive features several climbs to 3000 ft above sea level with a speed limit of 70.

Let's just say I wish I had taken the Maverick as this little 4 cylinder, 149 HP engine in the CRV just handle the load. It was as if I was pulling a small trailer. Climbs at 70 was causing rages of 5000 to 7500 rpm. Ultimately, we decided to back off the speed to 60 to 65 on those hills.
Oh, and this wound up getting us only 34-35 MPG.

I've driven the Maverick on this same path, with a loaded bed and had none of these issues.

Should have bought her a Maverick, but she doesn't like it.

This is the issue with Honda, and especially Toyota motors. They're gutless, people talk about how they're understressed, and how that somehow improves longevity. But they ignore the fact that you're having to redline the sucker every time you're getting up to speed. Pretty sure that's gonna have a negative impact on longevity.


This is where Ford shines. Their engines are also understressed, but punchier. Our explorer has a 3.5 duratec, regarded as a very reliable engine for the most part. Despite being understressed, it's never struggled really, we never have to push it past 3k RPMs because it doesn't struggle. The maverick is similar.

 

[710-oil-614]

My wife had to get a new car recently, and wound up picking out a 2024 Honda Hybrid CRV, which up until this point I have been happy with. This past weekend we made a trip from PA through MD and WV on our way to KY. This drive features several climbs to 3000 ft above sea level with a speed limit of 70.

Let's just say I wish I had taken the Maverick as this little 4 cylinder, 149 HP engine in the CRV just handle the load. It was as if I was pulling a small trailer. Climbs at 70 was causing rages of 5000 to 7500 rpm. Ultimately, we decided to back off the speed to 60 to 65 on those hills.
Oh, and this wound up getting us only 34-35 MPG.

I've driven the Maverick on this same path, with a loaded bed and had none of these issues.

Should have bought her a Maverick, but she doesn't like it.

The Honda hybrid system is fundamentally different than Ford's Hybrid system.

While I agree with you that the CRV is underpowered - the two hybrid system are apples to oranges.

When your CRV was surging between 5k-7k it was only powering the electric motor and was not spinning your driveshaft. Often times in a Honda hybrid, the RPMs are in no way related to the throttle input at the moment.

In short - Ford (Toyota) can deliver power to the drivetrain via their electric motor generator (MG2) and/or the ice engine which is controlled via motor generator 1, or more eloquently known to Ford as the eCVT - which provides variable gear ratios to either use power from ICE engine or direct power to HV battery. This is mostly a parallel system where the ICE engine and MG2 combine to power the vehicle. Ford's MG2 is much smaller (roughly 70KW / 90hp), necessitating that it be run in parallel with a larger ICE engine.

Honda - has a massive MG2 135kw (184hp / 232 ft lbs torque). The Honda hybrid system is a series hybrid system - meaning that MG2 is providing power or the ICE engine is providing power - but they are never combining to power the vehicle in parallel. Also - the ICE engine has a fixed overdrive gear ratio of roughly 0.8 so when in ICE mode only you are fixed into an overdrive gear ratio at all times which is not good for low speeds or strenuous driving through mountains.

So those surges in RPM you observed were in no way related to your ICE engine digging for more power - it was completely disconnected from the driveshaft and only spinning the 110kw generator which would be providing the power (instead of your HV battery) to MG2 to power the vehicle.

Max power from the Honda system is entirely electrical at 184hp/232 ft lbs of torque from MG2. With ICE mode only you're getting 149hp at a 0.8 overdrive ratio. In Hybrid/eCVT mode - you're getting power only from MG2 - but a reduction because it is being fed from MG1 which is rated at a max of 110kw.

Honda's 2.0 is sufficient for the current set up because it's primary job is to power the 110kw MG1 which it is capable of doing. In the limited times ICE only is called upon - it is not necessarily the power of the 2.0L but the fixed overdrive gear ratio of .8:1 that makes it feel like such a slog.

TL DR - Ford uses a parallel hybrid system that can effectively function in 9 different modes combining power from both ICE and MG2 motors. This is why Ford is hesitant to publish max power numbers. Honda uses a series hybrid system, that can function in only 3 modes (EV, ICE, or Hybrid - where the ICE engine simply powers MG2). Both are neat and both do different things better. The Honda won't ever provide great HWY mpg or under any kind of strenuous driving but it will provide far better MPG in city driving situations.

Now that you know the difference - you definitely chose the wrong tool for the job. No fault of the Honda, it just wasn't the most effective system for the task at hand.

EDIT: I know this because I've owned a 2022 Honda CRV Hybrid, I had a Maverick Hybrid on order for 13 months before forced into a Tremor, and I now have a 2025 Honda Civic Hybrid on order (to replace my 2024 Civic 1.5T).

The Hybrid system is definitely under powered for the weight and aero of the CRV. BUT they should ultimately double the size of the battery to make it less dependent on ICE, and "hybrid" modes which come at reduced power. Increasing the size or power of the ICE engine would do very little given the fixed overdrive gear ratio unless you increased the size of MG1 to at least 135kw which would max out power to MG2 when in "hybrid" mode.

I have zero of these concerns for the 2025 Civic.

 

[flashfearless]

My wife the engineer appreciated your detailed analysis. She said that since we don't often climb mountains, she's not going to obsess about it. Thank you.

 

[710-oil-614]

My wife the engineer appreciated your detailed analysis. She said that since we don't often climb mountains, she's not going to obsess about it. Thank you.

As a follow up - unless under heavy or full throttle Ford's hybrid system is set up and programmed to keep the ICE engine operating in the most efficient RPM band possible - so the "eCVT" (motor generator 1) is "continuously" moving power from the ICE engine to the driveshaft, to the HV battery, or shutting down completely when possible.

Honda's system is not set up for the ICE engine to operate efficiently. The ICE engine is there to generate power for the massive electric generator motors it is paired to so it's use and RPM range depends on the HV SoC and secondarily, the power demanded from MG2. Anytime the ICE engine is on it is spinning MG1 (110kw) whether it is recapturing power or not. When engaging the driveshaft it locks into that .8 overdrive ratio which is efficient by nature until it is misused.

 

[DWV]

It's logical that 2.5L beats 2.0L - at least to me.

 

[710-oil-614]

It's logical that 2.5L beats 2.0L - at least to me.

That has nothing to do with it.

 

[SamFranco]

My wife had to get a new car recently, and wound up picking out a 2024 Honda Hybrid CRV, which up until this point I have been happy with. This past weekend we made a trip from PA through MD and WV on our way to KY. This drive features several climbs to 3000 ft above sea level with a speed limit of 70.

Let's just say I wish I had taken the Maverick as this little 4 cylinder, 149 HP engine in the CRV just handle the load. It was as if I was pulling a small trailer. Climbs at 70 was causing rages of 5000 to 7500 rpm. Ultimately, we decided to back off the speed to 60 to 65 on those hills.
Oh, and this wound up getting us only 34-35 MPG.

I've driven the Maverick on this same path, with a loaded bed and had none of these issues.

Should have bought her a Maverick, but she doesn't like it.

She should have got the Rav4 hybrid. I trsded mine in on my Maverick hybrid. Loved the Rav4. The hybrid and the regular Rav4 have the same gas engines. Same engine in my wife’s Highlander hybrid, but the Rav4 has two electric motors and the Highlander only one. AWD vs FWD. This gives the hybrid Rav4 the most horsepower.

My Maverick is my 4th hybrid. Started with an Avalon hybrid. The only downsize is freezing weather and driving 75. Both reduce your mileage.

 

[Automate]

That has nothing to do with it.

I would have to disagree. You are saying the Mav Hybrid would be just as fast and climb hills just as easily if it had a 1 liter ICE?

Sponsored