Wanted to give permium gas a try

[todd92]

All gas has adequate detergent additives. Non Top Tier gas is not 'garbage gas'.

91+ definitely provides more power in the Ecoboost than 87. It says so right in the manual. Whether you notice or care or think it's worth the extra money is a seperate issue. Using above 87 in the hybrid is a waste of money.

Sorry, 91+ does not provide higher MPG. However, high altitude and hot temperatures do...

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[psuarmy]

You are 100% correct. Brother in law is retired petroleum engineer. Worked in that big huge refinery in Newark. Told me exactly the same thing. He started out at the bottom ranks of management and was a junior executive when he retired. I believe him, he does know his stuff. He has never run anything but 87 in every vehicle he has owned. He did say racing applications are way different and sometimes the fuels for them have to be "tweaked". But not the average computer adjusted main stream factory engines. When I was a locomotive engineer for the railroad we used to laugh at people who would tell us gasoline at station "A" was Sooo much better gas than station "B". What they did not know, in Grand Junction (and most places) the fuel ALL came in on rail from the single factory in Commerce City, north of Denver. It's all the same gas. Some individual stations and brands would require a hand pour of different additives at the transfer terminals (where the big trucks pick it up at). Usually, nothing in those additives had anything to do with performance, although that little fable was used in marketing. Truck driver friends would tell me the same thing. People would always come up and tell him they liked this particular brand of gas much better than the other station and brand down the road. Mostly, he never told them that when he left this station, he went right down the street and pumped the same gas in their tanks. As the old saying goes, "you don't always get what you pay for" All of this said, I did run 90 or 93 in both my Porsches. The newer one, owners manual said it was required or warranty would be void! Lots of people here in Idaho run "clear" gas as they have a lot of older vehicles that don't so well at all with the ethanol gas.

We have a "gasoline distribution" center near me. All gas stations come in and fill up. Each one adds their additive which I hear is about 5 gallons or less per tanker. Top tier gas has better additives. They are all for engine cleaning. Nothing for performance. The off brand stations buy the left over gas from the name brand stations filling up.

 

[Carlitos_92]

Again, the gas is the same. The additive package is different. At least, that is how it is around here. There are a couple refineries that provide all of the gasoline and they add the additive package when filling the tankers. That is also why it doesn’t matter what tanker truck is bringing the gas to your station, the truck doesn’t determine the additive package.

“Again?” Lol. No one is arguing wholesale distribution.

Your post that I quoted said “Then top tier means nothing for our engines” in response to someone who was presumably getting at the fact that there is no fuel mixture in the air going through the intake valves due to direct injection. Of course Top Tier is mostly in the additive packages. FYI, from https://www.toptiergas.com/consumer-faqs/:

" Consumers can be assured that TOP TIER™ Approved Fuels are high quality detergent additive fuels with performance verified at independent engine testing laboratories and sponsored by many global Automotive and Heavy-duty vehicle manufacturers. A fuel is TOP TIER™ Approved Gasoline or TOP TIER™ Approved Diesel if it contains an additive package that has been tested and shown to meet the requirements set forth in the TOP TIER™ Performance Standards. The Fuel Marketer also agrees to other conditions when they become licensed, such as displaying the logo at the site (either on the dispenser or at the fuel point of purchase) and allowing random sampling for quality monitoring."

Whether you think all that is purely marketing and a ripoff is besides the point I was making: if you do see value in using the OEM-recommended Top Tier approved fuel, then the value is there regardless of whether the engine is direct-injected or not... due to the other fuel system components which are present.

 

[dalola]

All gas has adequate detergent additives. Non Top Tier gas is not 'garbage gas'.

91+ definitely provides more power in the Ecoboost than 87. It says so right in the manual. Whether you notice or care or think it's worth the extra money is a seperate issue. Using above 87 in the hybrid is a waste of money.

Sorry, 91+ does not provide higher MPG. However, high altitude and hot temperatures do...

Your post was great...until it wasn't.....

PLEASE stop posting your opinion regarding higher octane in relation to FE, as if it were fact. It is NOT. There IS an improvement in FE when using 91+ octane fuel in the 2.0L-EB Maverick, vs 87. .5-1.0% is NOT zero.

Your suggestion is as ridiculous as saying two identical engines, one running at peak efficiency, and one running at 95% efficiency, will yield the same FE.

 

[The Real Maverick]

Your post was great...until it wasn't.....

PLEASE stop posting your opinion regarding higher octane in relation to FE, as if it were fact. It is NOT. There IS an improvement in FE when using 91+ octane fuel in the 2.0L-EB Maverick, vs 87. .5-1.0% is NOT zero.

Your suggestion is as ridiculous as saying two identical engines, one running at peak efficiency, and one running at 95% efficiency, will yield the same FE.

Except Todd was mostly right.

You are saying it gives "1% boost" in fuel economy, but you are in that power band 1% or less of the time so it helps you 1% of 1% of the time or 0.01% net gain.

Meh. Not zero. But close enough for horse shoes and hand grenades.

 

[dalola]

Except Todd was mostly right.

You are saying it gives "1% boost" in fuel economy, but you are in that power band 1% or less of the time so it helps you 1% of 1% of the time or 0.01% net gain.

Meh. Not zero. But close enough for horse shoes and hand grenades.

Yep, Todd was mostly right. Why settle for "mostly", when 100% just takes a tad more thought.

It has nothing to do with the power band of the engine. Efficiency is measured 100% of the time the engine is running, regardless how & what it's doing. The net gain is not fractional to the input.

Live in the details, my friend.

 

[A Sturdy Beast]

All gas has adequate detergent additives. Non Top Tier gas is not 'garbage gas'.

91+ definitely provides more power in the Ecoboost than 87. It says so right in the manual. Whether you notice or care or think it's worth the extra money is a seperate issue. Using above 87 in the hybrid is a waste of money.

Sorry, 91+ does not provide higher MPG. However, high altitude and hot temperatures do...

It is optional, but I wouldn’t call it a waste. Page 267 of the owner’s manual says that best performance is obtained with 91 octane or higher, especially in hot weather or when towing (or both). Apparently this applies to Ecoboost and Hybrids.

 

[RSM]

Hi,

You need to factor in the ethanol where you live. Ethanol is less energy dense. Where I live 87 octane normally has 10% or sometimes 15% ethanol. 89 octane has 5% and 91 octane has no ethanol. A gallon/liter of 91 octane has more energy as it contains no ethanol. Normally the little extra energy in a gallon/liter 91 octane is not worth the extra cost.

 

[710-oil-614]

Except Todd was mostly right.

You are saying it gives "1% boost" in fuel economy, but you are in that power band 1% or less of the time so it helps you 1% of 1% of the time or 0.01% net gain.

Meh. Not zero. But close enough for horse shoes and hand grenades.

You haven't been close to correct in this thread on a number of topics, just out here pushing falsehoods.

 

[The Real Maverick]

Hi,

You need to factor in the ethanol where you live. Ethanol is less energy dense. Where I live 87 octane normally has 10% or sometimes 15% ethanol. 89 octane has 5% and 91 octane has no ethanol. A gallon/liter of 91 octane has more energy as it contains no ethanol. Normally the little extra energy in a gallon/liter 91 octane is not worth the extra cost.

Correct.
I've said it many times in many threads:

There are more than 50 formulations of gasoline sold in the USA alone.

Each with different energy content.
This is what determines MPG.
Octane is a behavior of the fuel.
It is not necessarily an ingredient in the fuel. More octane rating does not equal more energy. Some will "say" it helps "extract more energy from the fuel.

This is in theory, but nearly impossible to measure outside of laboratory conditions.

 

[Snox801]

Your post was great...until it wasn't.....

PLEASE stop posting your opinion regarding higher octane in relation to FE, as if it were fact. It is NOT. There IS an improvement in FE when using 91+ octane fuel in the 2.0L-EB Maverick, vs 87. .5-1.0% is NOT zero.

Your suggestion is as ridiculous as saying two identical engines, one running at peak efficiency, and one running at 95% efficiency, will yield the same FE.

This is correct, with higher octane we can run more boost and timing. Both which add efficiency, hence why everyone is going turbocharged.
Same concept with why most people see a 2-3 mpg better gain with a performance tune than without.

 

[Snox801]

Hi,

You need to factor in the ethanol where you live. Ethanol is less energy dense. Where I live 87 octane normally has 10% or sometimes 15% ethanol. 89 octane has 5% and 91 octane has no ethanol. A gallon/liter of 91 octane has more energy as it contains no ethanol. Normally the little extra energy in a gallon/liter 91 octane is not worth the extra cost.

Kinda apples to oranges. We are talking all thing equal except octane.
My state every grade is 10 percent unless labeled non ethanol. So 87 has the same as 93. So when measuring mpg would be the same.

 

[Snox801]

Correct.
I've said it many times in many threads:

There are more than 50 formulations of gasoline sold in the USA alone.

Each with different energy content.
This is what determines MPG.
Octane is a behavior of the fuel.
It is not necessarily an ingredient in the fuel. More octane rating does not equal more energy. Some will "say" it helps "extract more energy from the fuel.

This is in theory, but nearly impossible to measure outside of laboratory conditions.

You’re correct on the first half but wrong on the second.
Octane is a measure of detention resistance. So that alone that will not make any difference in mpg. But when working with a ecoboost that can just boost and timing both that add efficiency it certainly does matter and is measurable real world.
As someone who drives a ton and tracks it well. I can 100 percent say it does get better mpg. Now is it worth the added cost. For me no. I run 87 for most my daily. But always run 93 while towing. On my previous f-150 I ran nothing but 93 every tank for more than 400k.
This truck I got to save money. So 87 for most days 93 for pulling and fun days.

 

[jewc75]

This is in theory, but nearly impossible to measure outside of laboratory conditions.

This statement tells me you know absolutely nothing about tuning and datalogging.

 

[Deweyordeweynot]

Curious why you say 87 is junk? That's all I have used for the past year.truck runs great and averaging 33 mpg. When my wife drives 29 mpg.

I hear ya! My wife has a heavy right foot too.

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