Hybrid Issues - It's not just the Maverick, it seems

[CTYankee]

This morning I was talking to our police chief following a budget meeting and we started to talk about cruisers. It turns out he tried to save the town some money by purchasing a couple of Ford hybrid PIU cruisers and they've been nothing but trouble. One of them is currently down and has been at the Ford dealer for a month. He was driving another and it just died on him in traffic. He needed help from another officer to get it off to the side of the road. Consequently, he's shifting all cruiser purchases back to gas only, especially now that they are also less expensive to purchase than hybrids. He finally ended up snagging a used gas cruiser from another town so he can have a spare to cover the hybrids being out of service.

As he was talking about his cruiser woes, I was replaying posts from MTC in my head describing similar problems. Ford clearly has some work to do in the hybrid space.

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[bighead]

(F)ound
(O)n
(R)oad
(D)ead

 

[Waterick]

I really have to wonder what Ford did to ruin the hybrid reputation they once had due to the reliability of the old Escape and C-Max hybrids.

 

[Cigargoyle]

Found
On
Road
Discharged

?

 

[Zotman]

Escapes and the C-Max were not manufactured or assembled
south of the border...

 

[fossil]

Escapes and the C-Max were not manufactured or assembled
south of the border...

nor the subject SUVs in this post

 

[SVTRIDE]

Escapes and the C-Max were not manufactured or assembled
south of the border...

Highly successful and reliable Hybrid Ford Fusion came out of same plant as the Maverick...
Design related issues all incubate in Dearborn…home of Product Development PD and hamstrung by “the Finance group” Nazis

 

[Zotman]

Thanks for the enlightenment, but something seems to have changed since the Fusion era.

 

[Red Ryder]

At some point, complacency comes into play:

You've got a successful platform, possibly overbuilt based on it being new technology at the time (early hybrids of 2005ish), that are reliable and widely touted. You decide to use that success to cast a wider net and gain market-share. Especially in the mid to late 'teens when you had abandoned the car market in favor of trucks/SUVs.
Let's build a vehicle (truck-like since we're Ford), and offer it in a hybrid for really cheap (starting at <$20,000). Let's fast-track this project, cutting cost wherever possible to maintain profitability at that price-point.

And here we are today.

 

[svogt302]

Escapes and the C-Max were not manufactured or assembled
south of the border...

Not true.

 

[Scott Asheville]

Before this turns into a "let's all dump on the hybrid owners" thread, let's pause to appreciate that there is anecdotal information and there isstatistical analysis. We won't know the Maverick hybrid-ecoboost statistics for a few more years. Alas, auto reliability is something you only really know about in the rear view mirror. For every wise guy who says "my brand X sucked", there is a wise guy who will answer "My brand X was awesome". Anecdotes are the last refuge of math-challenged tongue-waggers.

Case in point. Honda. Us Boomers remember Honda reliability from the 80s, and it got burned into our brains like it was the 11th Commandment. And everyone kept going on about Honda quality early this century even as the brand's quality plummeted in the early 2000s (to the point where the Honda CEO got on a podium and apologized to the world). Point being - the past does not always predict the future (it does sometimes strongly hint, aka Toyota).

Another case in point - everyone on this forum loves dumping on the Hyundai/Kia group. That's because our quality impressions were formed when Kia/Hyundai entered the US market with absolute garbage. Update yourselves, because that group's product has improved dramatically, and they're now doing exceptionally well on quality (better each generation) and now easily lead Ford.

Hybrids by definition have two power trains, along with the associated complexity. Any engineer will cringe at the very idea of a hybrid. Doesn't mean they can't make customers very happy while they work. Doesn't mean engineers (Toyota) can't make them very reliable (for a long while). But eventually the basic rule of automotive engineering rears its ugly head - "complexity is the mortal enemy of long-term quality and reliability".

So the takeaway is none of us know if the Maverick hybrid is a reliability gem, or a disaster, or a reliability gem that just had some toothing pain. We'll know after it's been on the market a decade and we can objectively look back at the fleet experience. BTW, same for us Ecoboost owners.

 

[Oscarcat]

Saturday morning musings:
The hybrid powertrain - actually combining two technologies ICE and EV - seems to be amazingly complex. My Mav is so smooth and quiet in electric mode. I look forward to an EV Maverick.

My hybrid Mav is more satisfying to drive compared to the 2011 Prius my wife had. The Ford eCVT is far superior to what was available in the 2011 Prius. [I hear Ford shares eCVT technology with Toyota]

Both my sons and my neighbors have EV's and have not had problems with the drivetrain. It has mostly been minor software issues. Just think, no oil and filter to change, no engine air filter, no exhaust system to replace. No tranny fluid to change. No direct injection issues. What will I do with all that extra time off from vehicle maintenance? Trade off for more tire wear. Range anxiety on the road.

I realize my climate in SoCal is just about ideal for EV battery life and I recognize others where it gets very cold or very hot will have a different experience.

 

[jorl]

my 22 XLT HYB has been nothing short of fantastic-22K miles and 45-48 MPG-guess I got a good one

 

[SVTRIDE]

Thanks for the enlightenment, but something seems to have changed since the Fusion era.

Clearly…PD focus shifted to BEV only model emphasis along with requisite development $’s. Hybrids (pure ICE too) demoted to not fitting in the BEV cadence coming from Ford Leadership and Government. Choke off program PD dollars and development really gets thrifted. A lot of test EJ-ing (Engineering Judgement) going on vs. actual on road or in-lab DVP&R hardware / software testing / prove-out. Timing compression too..must beat Tesla.
Note too, RIFs Ford has done in pursuit of cost reduction via senior engineering staff cuts with a lot of car development talent going out the door for the more “tech savy” younger (read cheaper) software engineers. BEVs are more computers on wheels. Those savy Engineers bring no PD or manufacturing past problem history along and they go down similar development dirt roads.

But back to your build location premise...All of Ford’s F-series are built north of the border…they too have huge hybrid issues (along with other models). Many rolling out of their backyard plant(s) in Dearborn. Give a plant a good proven design, tooling budget, stop late engineering changes going into launch….. plant location is immaterial.

 

[LGM30G]

Before this turns into a "let's all dump on the hybrid owners" thread, let's pause to appreciate that there is anecdotal information and there isstatistical analysis. We won't know the Maverick hybrid-ecoboost statistics for a few more years. Alas, auto reliability is something you only really know about in the rear view mirror. For every wise guy who says "my brand X sucked", there is a wise guy who will answer "My brand X was awesome". Anecdotes are the last refuge of math-challenged tongue-waggers.

Case in point. Honda. Us Boomers remember Honda reliability from the 80s, and it got burned into our brains like it was the 11th Commandment. And everyone kept going on about Honda quality early this century even as the brand's quality plummeted in the early 2000s (to the point where the Honda CEO got on a podium and apologized to the world). Point being - the past does not always predict the future (it does sometimes strongly hint, aka Toyota).

Another case in point - everyone on this forum loves dumping on the Hyundai/Kia group. That's because our quality impressions were formed when Kia/Hyundai entered the US market with absolute garbage. Update yourselves, because that group's product has improved dramatically, and they're now doing exceptionally well on quality (better each generation) and now easily lead Ford.

Hybrids by definition have two power trains, along with the associated complexity. Any engineer will cringe at the very idea of a hybrid. Doesn't mean they can't make customers very happy while they work. Doesn't mean engineers (Toyota) can't make them very reliable (for a long while). But eventually the basic rule of automotive engineering rears its ugly head - "complexity is the mortal enemy of long-term quality and reliability".

So the takeaway is none of us know if the Maverick hybrid is a reliability gem, or a disaster, or a reliability gem that just had some toothing pain. We'll know after it's been on the market a decade and we can objectively look back at the fleet experience. BTW, same for us Ecoboost owners.

Amen brother! As my boss says, the news reports the airplane crashes not the successful landings. For each horror story posted here there are lots of drivers with no issue.
I will trade my 2016 CMax Energi when my Lariat Hybrid arrives. The only issue I had with the CMax is that the 12V battery died. No warning. Beyond my capability to change.
looking forward to my Maverick. Projected build is now 6 Jun.

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