Should I just buy a better 12v battery at this point?

[MakinDoForNow]

Awesome summary!

Recently had the battery draw down over time issue, then experienced a single instance of the battery going to 0% overnight. Two different situations, could be related, but not necessarily.

No DTCs, reset the BMS on the original battery after a full, disconnected, charge and has been fine for ten days. Seems to be settling at 12.5v after parking and the electronics have gone to sleep. That being said, I'm still disconnecting the battery when I park it at the airport this weekend, as I don't want it to sit dead for a week if the load(s) don't switch off.

Appointment at the dealership in the new year, really just so that there is a record of the complaint, and perhaps have some recourse, if there is ever a fix rolled out, and I'm outside of warranty. Don't expect the dealership to really diagnose an intermittent fault or re engineer the charging system, beyond their scope even if they could recoup the cost. The fix is squarely on Ford's shoulders, and hopefully they step up to help us and the dealers.

Feel for the owners that have this going on constantly, an exercise in frustration for sure.

Cheers.

Definitely a frustration. I am fortunate and have not had deep sleep but have had dome lights off several times. It's hard to get a true reading of the 12v soc due to all the random draws on the battery. I am going on 23 months on my hybrid. Have not placed a maintainer on this one as I purchased a jump box to start it to take to dealer. I have decided that when mine sleeps or does not start I will just purchase a new Ford replacement and put the used one on a noco charger then desulfate plus repair mode, fully charge, load test charge and maintain for a total time of six months. Switch batteries then repair test and maintain newer. Switching batteries every six months until Ford figures out solution. It's most likely a dumdum never could happen situation(s). I feel that a new battery even with more capacity will just mask the problem and will not actually be a cure. Then I may just buy a new battery every 18-24 months.

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[skinnyboy]

Definitely a frustration. I am fortunate and have not had deep sleep but have had dome lights off several times. It's hard to get a true reading of the 12v soc due to all the random draws on the battery. I am going on 23 months on my hybrid. Have not placed a maintainer on this one as I purchased a jump box to start it to take to dealer. I have decided that when mine sleeps or does not start I will just purchase a new Ford replacement and put the used one on a noco charger then desulfate plus repair mode, fully charge, load test charge and maintain for a total time of six months. Switch batteries then repair test and maintain newer. Switching batteries every six months until Ford figures out solution. It's most likely a dumdum never could happen situation(s). I feel that a new battery even with more capacity will just mask the problem and will not actually be a cure. Then I may just buy a new battery every 18-24 months.

Was thinking of doing the same thing, if it goes dead again I will. PITA (especially on a road trip, do you bring an extra battery just in case?), but would be nice to have a spare under the circumstances, as they are easy to swap.
Not sure how happy the DC/DC converter or alternator on an Eco would be running the truck and charging a really dead battery at the same time.

Cheers.

 

[olderbudwiser]

No vehicle should require a battery tender for normal usage. None !!
Your dealer needs to escalate this issue to get a field service engineer involved. Hopefully a seasoned, experienced tech savvy engineer. Believe it or not some exist.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Presumably, it's been going on since Ford added the the BMS to the charging system....

On the other hand, the BMS isn't the only system that impacts charging the battery:

BMS: Battery Monitoring System
BCM: Battery Control Module
PCM: Power Control Module

The BMS is only uploading the SoC/condition of the battery to the BCM. It is the function of the BCM/PCM to control the charging the battery, how long to charge, what voltage, etc. This system can stop the charging, if the truck is accelerate fast.

These are modules with their own PCB, chips and firmware. Do they always work as intended to? Most of the times they probably do, but when it comes to hardware/software, there's always a glitch somewhere. Most people's vehicle may not get to this "glitch" to the noticeable level, while others cannot get rid of the same. As such, it is really not easy to pinpoint the source of the issue.

I did noticed that on my Maverick the battery is charged for 15 - 20 minutes close to 15V, then it drops down to battery voltage. My trips are short at low speed, the charge probably would resume on longer trips.

I noticed on mine that after recall 23E09 my dash power point voltage monitor spends more time between 14.8-15.5v . I don't know if that resulted in the change or the note that my battery was near 11.9-12.1v each morning on the authorization form I signed caused the tech to tweak a setting. Who will ever know. My hybrid did seem to run better after that service. I would suspect that when your voltage drops to battery range (less than 13.1???) the bms thinks it's charged (if sulfated could actually be at fully charge voltage but 1/3 of the 45AH capacity is not capable of being charged). I very very seldom see power point voltage below 14.3. I do double lock my hybrid with my key fob most nights as that turns off the courtesy lights and maybe other things at time of the double lock instead of their normal delay interval. Have no idea if that helps to any significant amount. Note also that their is a BMS reset procedure as well as "a battery installed learn procedure" which requires truck to be locked and undisturbed for up to 8 hours. I presume the 8 hours is needed for the bms to measure overnight draws or at least detecting abnormal voltage loss.

 

[jdtexas]

I noticed on mine that after recall 23E09 my dash power point voltage monitor spends more time between 14.8-15.5v . I don't know if that resulted in the change or the note that my battery was near 11.9-12.1v each morning on the authorization form I signed caused the tech to tweak a setting. Who will ever know. My hybrid did seem to run better after that service. I would suspect that when your voltage drops to battery range (less than 13.1???) the bms thinks it's charged (if sulfated could actually be at fully charge voltage but 1/3 of the 45AH capacity is not capable of being charged). I very very seldom see power point voltage below 14.3. I do double lock my hybrid with my key fob most nights as that turns off the courtesy lights and maybe other things at time of the double lock instead of their normal delay interval. Have no idea if that helps to any significant amount. Note also that their is a BMS reset procedure as well as "a battery installed learn procedure" which requires truck to be locked and undisturbed for up to 8 hours. I presume the 8 hours is needed for the bms to measure overnight draws or at least detecting abnormal voltage loss.

All very interesting comments, I hope Ford is listening. Many thanks to everyone time and interest. We are stronger together.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Was thinking of doing the same thing, if it goes dead again I will. PITA (especially on a road trip, do you bring an extra battery just in case?), but would be nice to have a spare under the circumstances, as they are easy to swap.
Not sure how happy the DC/DC converter or alternator on an Eco would be running the truck and charging a really dead battery at the same time.

Cheers.

A sulfated battery is not dead just has reduced capacity. Last test showed my design CCA of 470A to be at 411A. The hybrid dcdc converter can furnish up to a sustained 265amp which should use a lot of gas.
I am not carrying extra battery as the nearest Ford dealer should bring one out asap. Maybe even free(?).

 

[RockHoundTX]

The "full charge to dead in a day" is definitely either a battery issue or an abnormal current draw issue. My guess is abnormal current draw assuming you are seeing at least 12.40V when checked at least an hour after a drive/charge (so minimal surface charge). I have everything turned off that I can turn off and loose about .05V to .1V per day. If someone has wi-fi, remote start, etc. turned on, they should expect to loose .1V to .2V per day (so can go from good charge down to no-start in maybe 3-4 days). I have seen a .2V+ loss in a day when I fist got my truck but attributed that to the truck computer doing some sort of self-diagnostic or download (this was before I turned everything off).

I recently went on vacation (so unplugged my solar trickle charger I keep on my Maverick) and went from 12.48V down to 11.92V in 7 days. This was with the truck locked and no-one around to cause the truck to come out of sleep mode. Weather was between 38 degrees and 61 degrees each day.

I wonder if some of the "dead in a night" issues are caused by the heater coming on to heat the batteries at night to keep them from getting too cold? The OP is from Texas (same as me) so would not expect that to be his case but may be a cause for some up in colder climates.

I really, really, really wish that Ford would come out with some sort of statement other than "you should drive your Maverick at least once per week". I would love to know how the BMS is programmed and if there was a way to re-program it to keep the already too-small battery fully charged (instead of just the 80% charge that seems to be where the BMS is set at).

 

[cyberdog]

The small factory battery is simply drained by just the after cycle communications. I've been tracking mine for a while .... with a nice big H5 AGM en route.

 

[olderbudwiser]

All very interesting comments, I hope Ford is listening. Many thanks to everyone time and interest. We are stronger together.

You are correct we have the Ford account on this forum. Who ever is here doesn't care about this stuff. Now if you have both black and chrome lug nuts they are on it.

 

[skinnyboy]

A sulfated battery is not dead just has reduced capacity. Last test showed my design CCA of 470A to be at 411A. The hybrid dcdc converter can furnish up to a sustained 265amp which should use a lot of gas.
I am not carrying extra battery as the nearest Ford dealer should bring one out asap. Maybe even free(?).

Agreed. Even a reduced SOC/capacity on the battery should be lots to wake up the hybrid. 3v won't though. At home it's no big deal if it pulls the dead overnight thing. Just wondering about how to mitigate the situation if it does it away from home. Guess just jump it and drive all day (and burn the gas) might be easiest.

Cheers.

 

[bautek_mn]

I got my EcoBoost in the dead of winter last year and got stuck in a no-start condition twice after not driving for stretches of 4-5 days.

Truck has been fine on the factory battery after deleting it from FordPass, factory resetting the truck through the infotainment, declining every EULA I was able to bypass, and disabling all wireless options. I ticked the box for the remote-start fob so I don't miss FordPass.

I've wondered if you can get the same effect by interrupting power through the "Telematics control unit module (11)" fuse when you don't plan to drive for awhile.

 

[Skyline]

If you have the means of doing a cranking test on the EB 2.0, maybe you should test the battery. For example with MY2023, the cranking test shows this:

The cranking voltage < 9.6V indicate poor battery condition. The engine still cranks, but it should be checked and/or replaced. The cranking voltage should not fall under 9.6V with a good battery.

Then there is the charging test for MY2023:

The charging voltage of 15.18V indicates overcharging. The maximum charging voltage should be 14.7±0.05V. This actually indicates some issue with the PCM module, described in my PP. The additional 0.4V charging will certainly shorten the already weak battery and may had been the initial reason for issues with the battery. In which case, the PMC should be replaced.

But the dealer didn't believe so and instead, just recharged the battery in two days. I can do that in a half a day including de-stultification cycle as well...

 

[colinl]

Yep. They already replaced the factory battery with a new one. 5 days later it was dead in my driveway once again. The battery drains to 0 overnight even after driving 40 plus miles home from work. Dropped it off 3 weeks ago and they say they can't find any cause after weeks of investigating. So, come pick it up and wait for Ford to send out a service bulletin (which everyone knows they will never ever do for this).

you have 2 options.

1. find a new ford dealership and let them try to diagnose. 3 weeks is absolutely ridiculous. they either do not have enough qualified techs or they do not have any desire to work on your issue.

2. buy a new battery. the hybrid battery is a tiny group 99 battery and last I checked there were no AGM available, only flooded. I would get it from somewhere with a solid return policy, like Walmart.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Agreed. Even a reduced SOC/capacity on the battery should be lots to wake up the hybrid. 3v won't though. At home it's no big deal if it pulls the dead overnight thing. Just wondering about how to mitigate the situation if it does it away from home. Guess just jump it and drive all day (and burn the gas) might be easiest.

Cheers.

Re "drive all day" might not be an answer as when I first got my 2022 and for over a year I could go out and put it in ready state and let it sit. In an hour and 15 minutes Ice would cycle about 3 times for about 6-8 minutes to charge the HVB and the dcdc converter would charge the battery the whole time (lazy mans long drive). NOW after which program update I have no idea when I put hybrid into ready status it automatically turns off after about 10 minutes just like the remote start was activated. So maybe you won't be able to get out for longer than 9 minutes? I was in the truck for about 40 minutes once while wife ran into store for a "couple" of minutes and it stayed in ready state. Maybe a work around of having an inflatable "partner" with the fan moving it around a little will be needed???

 

[Bob The Builder]

Sounds like ford put some AI in the maverick, and this particular AI is a pissy little Bǐ+¢#. We all knew AI would ruin the world, and it’s name is BMS.

Just ask Kyle Reese.

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