TSB 23-2248 vs TSB 23-2060

[kelmarkV6guy]

My 2023 hybrid has the infamous brake grab at slow speeds - when breaking slowly the brakes suddenly grab when the truck gets down to around 5mph. And here's the kicker, and I've seen it it a couple other threads but I'm not sure if Ford has picked up on it - it happens every time it rains. The more it rains, the more frequent it will be when it comes time to stop. I've tried every thing I've read in the threads and nothing changes the outcome, and I'm concerned what might happen when the snow begins to fall and the roads are slick.

So I did more research and stumbled upon TSB 23-2060 (2.5L FHEV - Brakes Grab During Light Braking When Applied At Or Below 6 MPH) but discovered it had been superseded by TSB 23-2248 ( Shudder/Vibration When Vehicle Is Braking At 15 MPH (24 Km/H) Or Below - Built On Or Before 11-Apr-2023 ). I didn't have the shudder problem but took the 'superseded by' to mean that the 23-2060 fix was in the 23-2248 fix. So I recently went to the dealer and had them apply the update in TSB 23-2248, hoping it would fix my existing brake grab problem when it rains and head off a possible shudder issue. Nope. The brake grab is still there as mean as ever and I now get a slight shudder for a short time as I accelerate from a stop.

My question is, does TSB 23-2248 include the brake grab fix or did someone at Ford think these two problems are related, or the same thing, and accidently thought that 23-2248 should fix what 23-2060 was created for?

I'm taking my truck back to the dealer this Tuesday (9/12/23) for this and an odd water leak inside my driver side pillar that makes its way onto the driver doorsill as a puddle(what's with this truck and rain?), and I'll be pushing for the 23-2060 update unless they can answer my question as to what is meant by 'superseded by'. Any additional insight you can offer would certainly be greatly appreciated.

p.s. - long time reader but a first time poster. I apologize in advance if I've posted this in the wrong area.

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[kelmarkV6guy]

I guess in all the excitement of finally getting the Maverick I ordered in Nov ‘21, in March ‘23, I became an idiot and lost the ability to comprehend written words. Seems that TSB 23-2248 supersedes TSB 23-2209, not 23-2060, the one I actually needed and so brilliantly called out in the post. In case you aren’t shaking your head and laughing at me, I’m doing it for you
I’ve asked to dealer to perform the update for 23-2060 while they look for the mystery driver side pillar leak. I’ll update this post with any findings after I check into Maverick rehab

 

[paremyd]

Thanks for posting, let us know what you find out. I'm taking my truck in next week for similar issues of brake/shudder.

 

[skinnyboy]

I guess in all the excitement of finally getting the Maverick I ordered in Nov ‘21, in March ‘23, I became an idiot and lost the ability to comprehend written words. Seems that TSB 23-2248 supersedes TSB 23-2209, not 23-2060, the one I actually needed and so brilliantly called out in the post. In case you aren’t shaking your head and laughing at me, I’m doing it for you
I’ve asked to dealer to perform the update for 23-2060 while they look for the mystery driver side pillar leak. I’ll update this post with any findings after I check into Maverick rehab

Was the dealer able to find TSB 23-2060? My dealer showed that it wasn't in the system, for my 22 that falls within the affected build dates, and Ford Canada customer service has been beyond useless in sorting it out. Hoping that the tech. will update all relevant modules when doing the shudder updates.

Cheers.

 

[Elduchey]

My 2023 hybrid has the infamous brake grab at slow speeds - when breaking slowly the brakes suddenly grab when the truck gets down to around 5mph. And here's the kicker, and I've seen it it a couple other threads but I'm not sure if Ford has picked up on it - it happens every time it rains. The more it rains, the more frequent it will be when it comes time to stop. I've tried every thing I've read in the threads and nothing changes the outcome, and I'm concerned what might happen when the snow begins to fall and the roads are slick.

So I did more research and stumbled upon TSB 23-2060 (2.5L FHEV - Brakes Grab During Light Braking When Applied At Or Below 6 MPH) but discovered it had been superseded by TSB 23-2248 ( Shudder/Vibration When Vehicle Is Braking At 15 MPH (24 Km/H) Or Below - Built On Or Before 11-Apr-2023 ). I didn't have the shudder problem but took the 'superseded by' to mean that the 23-2060 fix was in the 23-2248 fix. So I recently went to the dealer and had them apply the update in TSB 23-2248, hoping it would fix my existing brake grab problem when it rains and head off a possible shudder issue. Nope. The brake grab is still there as mean as ever and I now get a slight shudder for a short time as I accelerate from a stop.

My question is, does TSB 23-2248 include the brake grab fix or did someone at Ford think these two problems are related, or the same thing, and accidently thought that 23-2248 should fix what 23-2060 was created for?

I'm taking my truck back to the dealer this Tuesday (9/12/23) for this and an odd water leak inside my driver side pillar that makes its way onto the driver doorsill as a puddle(what's with this truck and rain?), and I'll be pushing for the 23-2060 update unless they can answer my question as to what is meant by 'superseded by'. Any additional insight you can offer would certainly be greatly appreciated.

p.s. - long time reader but a first time poster. I apologize in advance if I've posted this in the wrong area.

Let me know what they find out about the leak! I've been going through hell trying to get mine fixed.

 

[Scupking]

Was the dealer able to find TSB 23-2060? My dealer showed that it wasn't in the system, for my 22 that falls within the affected build dates, and Ford Canada customer service has been beyond useless in sorting it out. Hoping that the tech. will update all relevant modules when doing the shudder updates.

Cheers.

Same with my dealer. He said TSB 23-2060 is now part of Recall 23E07.

 

[skinnyboy]

Same with my dealer. He said TSB 23-2060 is now part of Recall 23E07.

Yeah, and if 23E07 doesn't apply to your VIN you're SOL. Am assuming the recall is US specific.

Just got off the phone with Ford Canada Customer Service for the fourth time on the matter and got the same "a supervisor will call you within 3 days" story again. It would be nice for the tech. at the dealership to have some relevant information from Ford in Oasis to update the affected modules, not some schmuck holding an outdated TSB that's not in the system anymore, and having to piggyback it on the shudder TSB to get paid.

Cheers.

 

[Scupking]

Yeah, and if 23E07 doesn't apply to your VIN you're SOL. Am assuming the recall is US specific.

Just got off the phone with Ford Canada Customer Service for the fourth time on the matter and got the same "a supervisor will call you within 3 days" story again. It would be nice for the tech. at the dealership to have some relevant information from Ford in Oasis to update the affected modules, not some schmuck holding an outdated TSB that's not in the system anymore, and having to piggyback it on the shudder TSB to get paid.

Cheers.

The tech guy at my dealer said Ford will be sending out recall notices in the mail for 23E07 4th quarter, but who knows if that's true or not...

 

[skinnyboy]

Received a voicemail from a supervisor indicating that the only path to reaching a resolution is to have the dealership diagnose what is an intermittent failure at best, even though it's a known issue with a ready solution. (Dealership has been great-Fraser Ford in Oshawa-shout out.)

Ford Corporate uses the "push you off at the lowest possible level in the organization technique" (in this case anyway). I get that this is the way organizations operate, but what I suffered once in 40000 km with this "brake grab" issue was far beyond the usual delayed braking/booster lag that is more a nuisance. I shudder to imagine if this happened in a school pickup zone. To not look into this at a higher level and update affected vehicles is negligent. Definitely soured my ownership experience.

Sorry for the rant. Will rely on the good graces of the dealer to, hopefully, sort it.

Cheers.

 

[kelmarkV6guy]

Let me know what they find out about the leak! I've been going through hell trying to get mine fixed.

They found my leak. My leak was because the factory didn't install the sunroof drain tubes on the drivers side (see images). If that's your problem too, then give them a few days to order the parts and install them; basically the dealer helps build your truck because the factory didn't. That's the good news. The bad news is I'm getting into the - "your build date doesn't qualify for any of the fixes for the brake grab problem and the dealer doesn't get paid for doing updates that Ford claims aren't required" - phase of getting the brake grab problem fixed. The good news on that is that it had rained a lot before I went to pick up the truck up yesterday. My brake grab issue only shows up when it has rained a lot. I was able to have a service guy drive the truck around the lot and experience the brake grab problem first hand. That takes the he said she said element out of the equation. The dealer is now taking a different approach to the brake issue. Waiting to hear back from them on what they do or do not find and the path forward. But one more bad news item. My driver side door had a scratch in it about a foot long that wasn't there when I brought it in. I had washed and shined up the truck the day before, so I know what was and wasn't going on with the body. They'll buff it out and re-do the ceramic coating. I bought this truck as a retirement gift to myself. I'm beginning to think I'm real bad at picking out gifts.

But here's a question for Ford. If the factory can't even put in the sunroof drain tubes, how can you assure me that the factory did the PCM updates that my truck required? 23-2060 came out right after my truck was built.

 

[Grim_Skunk]

Was the dealer able to find TSB 23-2060? My dealer showed that it wasn't in the system, for my 22 that falls within the affected build dates, and Ford Canada customer service has been beyond useless in sorting it out. Hoping that the tech. will update all relevant modules when doing the shudder updates.

Cheers.

I went to my dealer in NB in August, gave them TSB-23-2248 (not 23-2060). I didn't have any issues... They found the TSB and did the work, took about 30 minutes and it made a huge difference with the brakes.

 

[kelmarkV6guy]

I wish that was the case for my truck. We started with TSB 23-2248 back on Aug 23, 2023 and it did not correct what I've been experiencing as the brake grab that's described in 23-2060.

Just got a call today and the dealer is now trying to tell me that it's operating as designed. Let me see it if I understand this correctly. Ford purposely designed this vehicle's brake to grab at around 6mph after it's been raining? I would love to see that requirements document and who signed off on it.

Here's what I think is happening. 23-2060 was issued to fix the problem. But by the time I experienced it, the fix in the initial standalone update in 23-2060 starting moving around into other TSBs and possibly recall 23E07 (based on what I gather from the threads around here), making it impossible for my dealer and others to get their hands on it. And wherever that fix is, the computer my dealer is using says my truck already has everything it needs, hence their stance that the truck is operating as designed. If we can't fix it, even after experiencing it ourselves, then try to pass it off as a feature? This is bs. And dangerous bs at that when the roads get slick in the next couple of months.

Waiting for the shop foreman to call me back. Round three is about to begin.

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