Hybrid Maverick towing observations [*Hybrid talk only*]

[GPSMan]

The stock hybrid comes with a transmission cooler. This thing says cool towing on the hottest of days.

The battery has a cooling system. As I stated, it does not get hot towing at steady speed. It is acceleration and deceleration that heats the battery. The battery will warm up in stop and go. But it's protected for this.

I've pushed my engine hard on a 100 degree day. It just won't overheat. Maybe it's the Atkinson cycle. Maybe it's the oversized radiator. Maybe a combination of both.

I'm in the middle of a long towing trip right now. Lots of hours in the seat (like 100 hours of towing) to study stuff. I'm looking at all the temperature sensors.

The needle (or bar graph, Lariat) I believe only shows engine coolant temperature. The owner who got an overheat message, and the needle didn't move, most likely had a generator over temperature condition.

In my Hybrid, while towing, the ONLY sensor that gets abnormally hot is the generator / starter motor.

Here is my correlation from 30 hours of study.

The over-temp worry is the generator.
It can heat up fast, but it also cools fast. This is why the other owner, NewMavIL, was able to clear the over-temp and continue in 5 minutes. Like 50°F temperature change in a minute or two or three.

Observation:

If you can keep the power needle at 50% or less, you (most likely) won't exceed any temperature threshold.

Spikes are fine for 30 seconds or a minute. But SUSTAINED power output at 60% is going to heat up the generator in 5 to 10 minutes. SUSTAINED power output of 70% is going to get to an over-temp in 3 to 5 minutes. Sustained output at 80%? 1 or 2 minutes. The liquid cooling loop is like a conveyor belt right? Conveying heat away from the motor(s). At very high output, it can't convey the heat away fast enough. The loop for the gas engine can. The loop for the generator, not so much.

So a quasi-scientific way to determine what you can pull is: you can pull anything, all day long, on a 100 degree day, so long as while you are pulling it, you can keep the needle at 50% or under. Short spikes above this are quite alright.

In a future post, lets discuss WHY the generator is the weakest link. The answer may not be what you'd expect.

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[Hardening2753]

Note: I am towing with:

Added 7 pin connector
Trailer brakes
Proportional brake controller
Added air bags to rear coils
Air pressure in rear tires higher for better load carrying, less heat, less wear, and lower rolling resistance.
And 30 years towing experiences
15 years of towing this exact trailer
(So I know how the trailer feels and behaves with other vehicles.)

And I will be talking about what the maximum the truck can do, not what is "in the manual". And not what you "should" do. Lets just say the manual is "about half" of what the truck can do. I will be giving tips on how to tell if you are pushing your truck too hard.... without watching the ODBII data port.

Everyone SHOULD stay under 2000 lbs for you trailer. But this is not due to capability reasons. And is due in part to not having the above equipment factory installed.

4k is possible and the truck is very capable of this in flat conditions but will struggle in hills and be painfully slow in mountains. 3k is both doable and practical in nearly all conditions WITH ADDED EQUIPMENT. This opens up lots more travel trailer options.

I see few under 2000. But many in the 2000 to 3000 pound range. I'm not a manufacturer. I'm an owner and consumer. I'm just reviewing what actually works. Everyone tows what they will at their own risk. I'm hoping to put into perspective the mechanical capabilities.

Also, I'm usually towing at 62 mph (100 km/hr) and no greater.

YOU WILL break the truck if you tow heavy and try to go faster.

I agree with you. I want to add an example. A buddy of mine has a Jeep and the rated towing is 2K. There's another version that's 4K and the only difference is that one has a

" engine temp never raised "

It would be interesting to know what did overheat?
Could be one or both of the electric motors, or The high voltage battery or the oil? Most trucks meant for heavy towing have a transmission temp gauge. Some have an oil temp gauge. At higher speed the oil gets hotter compared to the coolant that may stay at normal temp. At lower speed the oil will be cooler.

Overheating the battery could really do some long term damage to it. If it is the oil just getting a little to hot then just change the oil out soon and it will be fine, If the oil is getting very hot it can make all kinds of problems.

But this is why trucks meant for heavy towing have the gauges so you can keep track of what is going on.

Does the oil or transmission fluid look dark or smell burnt? If not then maybe it was the battery that over heated?

You could add a transmission cooler and an oil cooler. But I don't think there is much you can do to cool the battery.

Most likely the transmission. If you read some of the white papers about the hybrid transmission it mentions that it's not the power that limits the towing it's the cooling capacity

 

[Hardening2753]

The stock hybrid comes with a transmission cooler. This thing says cool towing on the hottest of days.

The battery has a cooling system. As I stated, it does not get hot towing at steady speed. It is acceleration and deceleration that heats the battery. The battery will warm up in stop and go. But it's protected for this.

I've pushed my engine hard on a 100 degree day. It just won't overheat. Maybe it's the Atkinson cycle. Maybe it's the oversized radiator. Maybe a combination of both.

I'm in the middle of a long towing trip right now. Lots of hours in the seat (like 100 hours of towing) to study stuff. I'm looking at all the temperature sensors.

The needle (or bar graph, Lariat) I believe only shows engine coolant temperature. The owner who got an overheat message, and the needle didn't move, most likely had a generator over temperature condition.

In my Hybrid, while towing, the ONLY sensor that gets abnormally hot is the generator / starter motor.

Here is my correlation from 30 hours of study.

The over-temp worry is the generator.
It can heat up fast, but it also cools fast. This is why the other owner, NewMavIL, was able to clear the over-temp and continue in 5 minutes. Like 50°F temperature change in a minute or two or three.

Observation:

If you can keep the power needle at 50% or less, you (most likely) won't exceed any temperature threshold.

Spikes are fine for 30 seconds or a minute. But SUSTAINED power output at 60% is going to heat up the generator in 5 to 10 minutes. SUSTAINED power output of 70% is going to get to an over-temp in 3 to 5 minutes. Sustained output at 80%? 1 or 2 minutes. The liquid cooling loop is like a conveyor belt right? Conveying heat away from the motor(s). At very high output, it can't convey the heat away fast enough. The loop for the gas engine can. The loop for the generator, not so much.

So a quasi-scientific way to determine what you can pull is: you can pull anything, all day long, on a 100 degree day, so long as while you are pulling it, you can keep the needle at 50% or under. Short spikes above this are quite alright.

In a future post, lets discuss WHY the generator is the weakest link. The answer may not be what you'd expect.

The hybrid transmission does have a cooler but it's built in to the radiator of the engine coolant. So it has reduced cooling capacity. If you look at the schematics it runs on one of the sides of the radiator, not the entire surface.

 

[GPSMan]

I agree with you. I want to add an example. A buddy of mine has a Jeep and the rated towing is 2K. There's another version that's 4K and the only difference is that one has a

Most likely the transmission. If you read some of the white papers about the hybrid transmission it mentions that it's not the power that limits the towing it's the cooling capacity

Towing up sustained 7% grades on 100°F day at 55-60 MPH the transmission sensor, never more than 141°F. Traction Motor: never more than 145°F. Engine Coolant, never more than 215°F and that was just about for 1 minute on the steepest grade. Cruising on the flat while towing the engine stays 190°F to 200°F.

 

[DarkStormy]

Towing up sustained 7% grades on 100°F day at 55-60 MPH the transmission sensor, never more than 141°F. Traction Motor: never more than 145°F. Engine Coolant, never more than 215°F and that was just about for 1 minute on the steepest grade. Cruising on the flat while towing the engine stays 190°F to 200°F.

I have to wonder if Fords towing capacity for the Hybrid was based on a "worst case scenario" of mountain grades. Of course weight is only one consideration, there is also the front surface area of the trailer to take into account.

 

[Automate]

I have to wonder if Fords towing capacity for the Hybrid was based on a "worst case scenario" of mountain grades. Of course weight is only one consideration, there is also the front surface area of the trailer to take into account.

All vehicle manufacturers use a worst case scenario when rating their vehicles. So think 120F day going up a 6% grade and trying to go 65 MPH.

Also, it is important to remember with the hybrid, when towing up a hill, the small hybrid battery will be quickly depleted. So you are left with only the 162 hp gas engine.

 

[Rivers90]

The dash guage for engine temp never raised, then I got an overheating warning. I immediately pulled over, turned off truck for 5min, turned on truck for 5min to charge battery, then continued at slow speed.

Most likely the transmission. If you read some of the white papers about the hybrid transmission it mentions that it's not the power that limits the towing it's the cooling capacity

The hybrid transmission does have a cooler but it's built in to the radiator of the engine coolant. So it has reduced cooling capacity. If you look at the schematics it runs on one of the sides of the radiator, not the entire surface.

This would be a logical conclusion. Transmission overheated. The 4k tow does say it has an added transmission cooler. Many trucks meant for towing have an extra transmission cooler, the one in the radiator and also an external one.

Also I read another post about towing over the limit and the legal dangers of doing so. I would not want my transmission to blowup and then not be covered under warranty or to get in an accident and be considered at fault because of being over the max weight for towing. And after waiting a year to get a hybrid trying to take care of it and not abusing it would be a good idea.

If you really need to tow and must have a hybrid the F150 PowerBoost Full Hybrid can tow over 12,000 LBS.

 

[TomD]

HYBRID TALK ONLY HERE.

The hybrid tows great.

Having pretty much ALL the instruments displayed (up to 27 simultaneous sensors displayed via OBDII port on a scan gauge,) you CAN'T make the engine overheat, assuming proper coolant level and good water pump and clean radiator fins.
THE RADIATOR IS LARGE ENOUGH FOR THE TOUGHEST TOWING IN 100 degrees ambient. If your needle goes up, or you get a warning, something is broken.

The battery gets hotter in stop
N go, empty bed, no trailer, than it does in steady highway towing. When highway towing, the battery isn't doing much for you. It is NOT getting a work out. Highway towing, in 100 degree heat, the battery stayed cool all day. The battery gets hot from repetitive accelerations and decelerations. City stops and starts every block heat up the battery fast. As so do all those engine restarts in the city. The battery is on a comparative vacation when you are driving steady speed. The load leveling from peaks and valleys, "camel humps" on the interstate do not work the battery as much as stop n go does.

I only type from a phone so will be adding about one page per day over the next few weeks.

I guess because I am not an engineer what does all this mean?
Is there way to cool the batteries? Will driving in stop and go traffic prematurely fail?

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I guess because I am not an engineer what does all this mean?
Is there way to cool the batteries? Will driving in stop and go traffic prematurely fail?

It tells you that everything relevant is heated and/or cooled. As long as the umpteen sensors and everything are within there parameters truck is ok. If something fails truck will limp mode and you will be notified.

 

[GPSMan]

I'm saying stop n go is more harsh on the batteries than towing. But is fine. It is made for it. That HV battery is like a rubber band on a toy plane. Every time you slow down or stop, it winds up (stores energy). Every time you accelerate it unwinds (releases energy).

Moving at a steady speed the battery use is trivial. Not zero. But not worth thinking or talking about.

 

[GPSMan]

Pro Tip:

When towing, or not towing, drive at a speed that keeps the power needle at 50% or less and nothing should overheat if all systems are working properly.

Power use above this for one or two minutes here and there with one or two minutes of "rest" (easy going under 50%) and you are going to be OK.

Not towing but driving 85 MPH is going to generate about the same amount of heat as heavy towing at 55 MPH.

 

[TedTX]

Adding information request about the overheating generator.
My plan was to use the almost not used generator at highway speeds to high wattage top off a solar generator (bluetti ac180) during the shorter trips I take.
For health, I go about 2 hrs travel and take half to whole day to visit places in extended stays before heading in a cycle back home a different way after a few days out.
If this would cause an issue to overheat generator, or help it by using energy spun up by a system already in motion? The DC-DC controller would be keep about half of capacity. 1500w MAX via sinewave inverter, for the first hour, then watt draw drops automatically as topped off.

 

[Automate]

This would be a logical conclusion. Transmission overheated. The 4k tow does say it has an added transmission cooler. Many trucks meant for towing have an extra transmission cooler, the one in the radiator and also an external one.

Also I read another post about towing over the limit and the legal dangers of doing so. I would not want my transmission to blowup and then not be covered under warranty or to get in an accident and be considered at fault because of being over the max weight for towing. And after waiting a year to get a hybrid trying to take care of it and not abusing it would be a good idea.

If you really need to tow and must have a hybrid the F150 PowerBoost Full Hybrid can tow over 12,000 LBS.

OP put [*Hybrid talk only*] in the title for a reason. Your EcoBoost automatic transmission is a completely different animal than the eCVT in the hybrids.

Traditional automatic transmission are dependent upon transmission fluids that heat up as they do their work. The higher the load (such as pulling a trailer) the more work on the fluids and the more the heating.

The hybrid eCVT uses gears and not fluids to do its work. These gears don't really care how much load is being pulled, the gears work at high efficiency and do not heat up.

But the hybrid eCVT does have two electric motor/generators. The motor/generators produce and consume electricity which causes heating.

 

[Rivers90]

OP put [*Hybrid talk only*] in the title for a reason. Your EcoBoost automatic transmission is a completely different animal than the eCVT in the hybrids.

Traditional automatic transmission are dependent upon transmission fluids that heat up as they do their work. The higher the load (such as pulling a trailer) the more work on the fluids and the more the heating.

The hybrid eCVT uses gears and not fluids to do its work. These gears don't really care how much load is being pulled, the gears work at high efficiency and do not heat up.

But the hybrid eCVT does have two electric motor/generators. The motor/generators produce and consume electricity which causes heating.

The truck that overheated and had to be shut down on the side of the road to cool off was a hybrid. We don't know what part of the system overheated the message on the dash just said it was overheating. Maybe it was the battery that overheated or one of the electric motors. There os not a display of the temperature of those items. Which is too bad, as we don't know what part of the hybrid system overheated. It could have been the power inverter or some other power control system. The coolant temperature stayed in the normal range when the overheating occurred so it was something else.

 

[jerrisn]

HYBRID TALK ONLY HERE.

The hybrid tows great.

Having pretty much ALL the instruments displayed (up to 27 simultaneous sensors displayed via OBDII port on a scan gauge,) you CAN'T make the engine overheat, assuming proper coolant level and good water pump and clean radiator fins.
THE RADIATOR IS LARGE ENOUGH FOR THE TOUGHEST TOWING IN 100 degrees ambient. If your needle goes up, or you get a warning, something is broken.

The battery gets hotter in stop
N go, empty bed, no trailer, than it does in steady highway towing. When highway towing, the battery isn't doing much for you. It is NOT getting a work out. Highway towing, in 100 degree heat, the battery stayed cool all day. The battery gets hot from repetitive accelerations and decelerations. City stops and starts every block heat up the battery fast. As so do all those engine restarts in the city. The battery is on a comparative vacation when you are driving steady speed. The load leveling from peaks and valleys, "camel humps" on the interstate do not work the battery as much as stop n go does.

I only type from a phone so will be adding about one page per day over the next few weeks.

What ScanGauge are you using that shows 27 different sensors at once? Is this an App?

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