Ford needs to deliver as many Maverick Hybrids as possible

[AznMav]

What revenue? Even with as cheap as Ford is producing the Maverick the margins are so small and in some cases (a bare bones hybrid) practically non-existent. Ford would need to sell 20 Hybrid XLs to match margins of 1 - F-150.

I know it's really hard for individuals who desire the entry level Maverick to understand that they don't plan to build anymore than they do and it is entirely strategic.

The Maverick shares the line with a more expensive Bronco Sport. Hermasillo is at capacity. They aren't going to expand there or any of their other factories to build a low/no margin vehicle that they are producing to only satisfy CAFE.

It's dollars and sense - at a corporate level - not a personal consumer level.

If it was strategic they would build as many hybrid mavericks as possible why? Brand loyalty. They already have the full size with the F-150, they lose to the taco in the mid-sized, so the Maverick can capture the compact truck segment which won’t have competitors for years. The hybrid powertrain is the constraint period. They brought it in house and can’t scale up fast enough. The cafe credits are bankable and tradable for up to 3 years so building just enough to offset doesn’t make sense. Tesla makes hundreds of millions on selling the credits each quarter! So if ford can create excess credits why wouldn’t they? The 35% constraint was probably based on what they think they could produce as far as the hybrid powertrain and then marking up to get the total numbers.

Sponsored

 

[AznMav]

For me, this is Ford's only shot, back to Toyota if I do not get a Hybrid this year

So what was your motivation in ordering the Maverick?

 

[PhilD]

If it was strategic they would build as many hybrid mavericks as possible why? Brand loyalty. They already have the full size with the F-150, they lose to the taco in the mid-sized, so the Maverick can capture the compact truck segment which won’t have competitors for years. The hybrid powertrain is the constraint period. They brought it in house and can’t scale up fast enough. The cafe credits are bankable and tradable for up to 3 years so building just enough to offset doesn’t make sense. Tesla makes hundreds of millions on selling the credits each quarter! So if ford can create excess credits why wouldn’t they? The 35% constraint was probably based on what they think they could produce as far as the hybrid powertrain and then marking up to get the total numbers.

Nailed it!

 

[AznMav]

I am the same - no Maverick, I'm moving on most likely to Toyota or Honda. I'd rather not, obviously, but I'm not driving my old junker past fall 2023.

Toyota still has the ancient and fuel inefficient taco with poor ergos and the Ridgeline starts at $40k. Driving a junker sucks but I’m thinking you can get an EB by the end of the year As they have plenty of capacity to build dealer stock orders.

 

[AznMav]

At this point of 'overwhelming business'- do you actually think Ford cares if we purchase other manufacturers trucks? They can't fulfill their orders now. That would take the pressure off them.

I think they care but there’s only so much they can do about it. I’m a good example. This will be my first truck ever and first ford ever. I’m so excited to get it and reading about how cool trucks are I thought about just jumping to the ranger. Then I read about the refresh so I held off. But watching the YouTube videos from Australia on the new ranger got me excited to order one when it launches in the states if it gets a hybrid or PHEV option on day 1. I might even get the ranger as an ICE vehicle if it gets decent mpg. So the sooner they get me into a Maverick the better it is for them as they can capture my enthusiasm before my interest fades or another competitor comes out with a surprise launch. I doubt there will be any surprises in the segment though. The company that created the hybrid let Ford come out first with the fuel efficient truck. Go figure.

 

[AznMav]

Well they managed to sell 650,000+ F Series, and even 117,000+ Broncos, but can only build 77,000 Mavericks? What a joke.

And how many of those f series and broncos required a hybrid powertrain?

 

[mtd14]

So Ford adds AWD as an option, which I think everyone is expecting, than they would still undercut Toyota by a few thousand and please everyone?

Like I said, Ford can offer it as an option but with Toyota it’ll be standard. And if a Toyota version is only a few thousand more for the equivalent, I think plenty of people will switch over. Which is great for Maverick people, because then theres less of a wait and more pressure to keep prices low.

 

[710-oil-614]

If it was strategic they would build as many hybrid mavericks as possible why? Brand loyalty. They already have the full size with the F-150, they lose to the taco in the mid-sized, so the Maverick can capture the compact truck segment which won’t have competitors for years. The hybrid powertrain is the constraint period. They brought it in house and can’t scale up fast enough. The cafe credits are bankable and tradable for up to 3 years so building just enough to offset doesn’t make sense. Tesla makes hundreds of millions on selling the credits each quarter! So if ford can create excess credits why wouldn’t they? The 35% constraint was probably based on what they think they could produce as far as the hybrid powertrain and then marking up to get the total numbers.

I think you are confused. The regulatory credits are absolutely not the same as CAFE. Tesla sells regulatory credits they receive for producing ZEVs (from the US and 13 states) - this is not the same as CAFE, and Ford gets zero regulatory credits for selling Hybrid vehicles. Not even close, and Ford does not have the credits to sell that Tesla does.

It's just really hard for individuals to understand that there is almost no profit (extremely low margins) on the Maverick and that production of the Maverick is to satisfy CAFE. The Maverick (C2 platform) is now classified as a light duty truck and is basically the Focus (C2 platform) that was classified as a small passenger vehicle.

If people are angry about buying a $30k EB Maverick in replacement of a $25k hybrid Maverick those buyers were never stepping into a Ranger or an F150. Ford is not interested in building brand loyalty for a vehicle that has no margins and produces no profit. If they were, they wouldn't have axed the focus (which had a beloved, cult like following).

What is the point of running an operation (vehicle platform) if it does not create profit?

No doubt Ford wants to introduce new buyers to their line up that is true - but the reason is to satisfy CAFE ratings that impact their high margin, high volume, bread and butter F-150 sales.

Ford is not incompetent. They could have pivoted when demand exploded 18 months ago but they have not. They have stayed the steady course of 85,000 Mavericks for 2 years running. Anyone believing that will greatly increase in 2024 will be mistaken.

Of course - I am sure that is only because supply chain issues are still constraining the hybrid engines and batteries..........

 

[710-oil-614]

Like I said, Ford can offer it as an option but with Toyota it’ll be standard. And if a Toyota version is only a few thousand more for the equivalent, I think plenty of people will switch over. Which is great for Maverick people, because then theres less of a wait and more pressure to keep prices low.

The base 4x2 Tacoma today starts around $30k.

Add AWD and a hybrid drivetrain plus a model refresh and you're going to be looking at about $37,500 as a starting price for a next-gen 4WD Hybrid Tacoma.

Everyone out here thinking that other car manufacturers are falling over themselves to offer a sub $30k hybrid pick up truck to "satisfy the massive demand" are almost as delusional as thinking your order at a dealership was a God given right to get a Maverick within 90 days.

 

[LSchicago]

And how many of those f series and broncos required a hybrid powertrain?

Nothing complicated about the ECVT. Quite the opposite. A VERY simple system. A TINY battery. No reason Ford can't increase production in the year they already had to do it. NONE.

ON EDIT: Ford figured out how to build more Hybrid Mavericks, only issue is they are sending all the extra production to Brazil. Yes, that's right Ford just started selling Maverick Hybrids in Brazil, instead of taking care of their home country orders.

 

[Last Truck Ever]

If it was strategic they would build as many hybrid mavericks as possible why? Brand loyalty. They already have the full size with the F-150, they lose to the taco in the mid-sized, so the Maverick can capture the compact truck segment which won’t have competitors for years. The hybrid powertrain is the constraint period. They brought it in house and can’t scale up fast enough. The cafe credits are bankable and tradable for up to 3 years so building just enough to offset doesn’t make sense. Tesla makes hundreds of millions on selling the credits each quarter! So if ford can create excess credits why wouldn’t they? The 35% constraint was probably based on what they think they could produce as far as the hybrid powertrain and then marking up to get the total numbers.

I think we can safely say, two years into this, that Ford doesn't give a rats ass about brand loyalty. They're gonna build what makes them the most money -- the few hybrids chosen are, with some rare dart-board tactic exceptions, going to be the higher dollar ones, cause that just makes sense for them. They're over in the F150 and Lightening plant making literal $100k trucks, while we $25k people are screaming about fairness. They don't care. We've also all clearly demonstrated a willingness to put up with it, to order and wait a year or more, or to get frustrated and go pay $5k more than one is worth. None of which impacts Ford in the least. There is no one in a boardroom at Ford wringing hands over not getting hybrids to us, because as so many have pointed out, they're not profitable except perhaps at the Lariat level.

As evidenced, IMHO, by this week's scheduling, there is only hand-wringing about how to get the hybrid folks to switch to EB's, because that they CAN make. I think this week's scheduling of folks who switched hybrid to EB was a purposeful tactic. "See?! You too can get scheduled, just switch!" (Worked for me, I'm trying to get hold of my salesman now).

 

[jsus]

Ford is not incompetent. They could have pivoted when demand exploded 18 months ago but they have not. They have stayed the steady course of 85,000 Mavericks for 2 years running. Anyone believing that will greatly increase in 2024 will be mistaken.

Meanwhile, F-150 Lightning production was originally slated to be a mere ~40,000 units annually, increased by 275% to a projection of 150,000. Rouge Electric Vehicle Center, birthplace of F-150 Lightning, has undergone not one but two expansion projects at this point, both while they cannot keep up with Maverick/Escape Hybrid demand.

Mustang Mach-E production was originally slated to be around the same. There were supposed to be other models built at Cuautitlán on the same platform. Due to overwhelming demand for MME, those other products were kicked out of the plant. Production there is said to be growing up to around 200,000 units annually.

It should be clear, then, that Ford execs have a plan with Maverick that they're sticking to, including the allocation of Hybrid units. Meanwhile, they're capitalizing on where they see 1) overwhelming demand and 2) long-term profit/greater ROI.

Further, it seems many on here think that a company the size of Ford has unlimited funds and can do whatever it wants. Meanwhile, the only reason Ford survived 2008-2009 et al without going through the "managed bankruptcy" that GM and Chrysler did (latter seeing them sold to the Italians), was that Alan Mulally bet the house (and the signature blue oval) to secure funds. If they spend money on the wrong priorities, they could end up back in that same situation.

Clearly they are attempting to capitalize on shifting demand - where they see the best ROI.

Still waiting for that shareholder revolt over this that some on here expect to see... As the shareholders laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[mtd14]

The base 4x2 Tacoma today starts around $30k.

Add AWD and a hybrid drivetrain plus a model refresh and you're going to be looking at about $37,500 as a starting price for a next-gen 4WD Hybrid Tacoma.

Everyone out here thinking that other car manufacturers are falling over themselves to offer a sub $30k hybrid pick up truck to "satisfy the massive demand" are almost as delusional as thinking your order at a dealership was a God given right to get a Maverick within 90 days.

Thats a great strawman argument, where did I say I expect it to be under $30k and when did I say I should get a Maverick in 90 days? I said it'll be more expensive than a loaded Lariat, which is $34k. It'll almost certainly have a longer wait too, since Toyota tends to be more popular and builds a better car.

 

[jsus]

Thats a great strawman argument, where did I say I expect it to be under $30k and when did I say I should get a Maverick in 90 days?

Doesn't read as if that was personally directed to you...

 

[mtd14]

Doesn't read as if that was personally directed to you...

Other than the part where he is quoting me and addressing my comment?

Sponsored