Is it time to rein in dealers unfair sales practices?

[Finnster]

FTC looking for comments on proposed regulation of car dealer unfair practices! I think these are the related links.

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/new...-fees-bait-switch-tactics-plaguing-car-buyers

https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/b...or-vehicle-dealers-trade-regulation-rule-nprm

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...4/motor-vehicle-dealers-trade-regulation-rule

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[gte105u]

A rule is only as good as its ability to enforce it. No mention of the consequences.... Many states already have laws for some of this and you see the result.

The best answer as a consumer for not being suckered is to be informed, and speak with your wallet. You can always say no, as inconvenient as it may be. Don't let the shady dealers win.

 

[Finnster]

The best answer as a consumer for not being suckered is to be informed, and speak with your wallet. You can always say no, as inconvenient as it may be. Don't let the shady dealers win.

I would agree completely, if not for my experience of not being openly given the actual costs of the deal on the truck I'm trying to order. More importantly, I have yet to find a local salesman who will say he will "COVP" my order! Actually, I haven't found a salesman who will say he knows what "COVP" is!

I am sure I can order and get any Maverick I want at these local dealers! What I am not being given is order verification and a guarantee of the cost at delivery! Actually, I thought that is what the "MSRP" sticker law was supposed to do.

 

[TheSEARCH]

One of the rip off dealers near me Delacy Ford NY said out right they want 2500 more over MSRP on orders. At least they were up front about it. The funny part is sales women who told me that I told her don't bother calling me again. I wont pay over MSRP and said her dealership is a ripoff. . 4 weeks later she calls on Aug 1st to tell me about delay in ordering a Mav.

 

[gte105u]

I would agree completely, if not for my experience of not being openly given the actual costs of the deal on the truck I'm trying to order. More importantly, I have yet to find a local salesman who will say he will "COVP" my order! Actually, I haven't found a salesman who will say he knows what "COVP" is!

I am sure I can order and get any Maverick I want at these local dealers! What I am not being given is order verification and a guarantee of the cost at delivery! Actually, I thought that is what the "MSRP" sticker law was supposed to do.

I hear you, and measures to rein in shady dealers is not a bad thing. Unfortunately rules tend to only keep the honest people honest. A shady dealer will find a loophole, or even just break it and wait for the consequences.

I get the inconvenience of choosing the least of evils (and feel for you on it). Some areas have a tendency to breed unsavory business cultures, it's funny how this can occur (clumping of bad or good, it happens both ways). At that point it may mean choosing the least bad option. Be that going out of town to purchase, buying a used vehicle directly from selling party, getting a different brand from a more reputable source, or powering through it with a shady dealer and know what you are walking into. There's always a choice, one may just not love the options...

 

[Scott Asheville]

It's almost a done deal anyway. As usual, the fed and state goonies are 50 years late to the dance. This doesn't need federal involvement, and frankly the feds suck at enforcing 99% of the laws they already have on the books. Probably because they're too busy firing law enforcement officers.

Ford in particular has already sunk a knife deep into the liver of evil dealers. The whole concept of Ford Blue is that all BEV Fords will be sold through franchisees who sign up for online sales direct from Ford. So the dealer does service (where they make all their money anyway and are free to continue fleecing you) and delivery only. No $500 paperwork fees. No $1,000 paint coatings. No steering you to horrible financing deals so they get kickbacks from the banks.

Of course Tesla was there ten years ago. I'm no Tesla fanboy, but they despite all their many failings you click some buttons and you get your Tesla. Well, maybe after a few months or years waiting for them to catch up to demand.

All us old Boomers can stomp our feet and rant all we want. The kids aren't having any part of scumbag dealerships. If you don't sell to them online with a mouse click or a finger tap, you have no future.

Well, there is one thing the feds could do that might help. They could declare the NADA a terrorist organization and ban them from buying every politician at every level of government, which they've been doing for decades. Oh wait, that won't happen. Auto dealers are saints without whom our communities would collapse.

 

[MLowe05]

Auto dealers are saints without whom our communities would collapse.

We have a particular Ford salesman on here that believes just this. It is one thing to go into car sales for the money.. knowing you'll be screwing people and being OK with it. It's another to drink the kool-aid and believe you're necessary.

 

[FriscoTXJoe]

If you are concerned about dealers trying to stay financially afloat by tacking on margin on the few new vehicles they have available to sell then I am really hoping when you trade your car in and they offer you stupid good money, you are that wonderful person who rejects the offer and sells your car at below market value.

If not, you are a hypocrite.

Let the market determine what's successful and we will all win in the end. Get government involved and we are screwed. Been there, done that.

 

[Finnster]

If you are concerned about dealers trying to stay financially afloat by tacking on margin on the few new vehicles they have available to sell then I am really hoping when you trade your car in and they offer you stupid good money, you are that wonderful person who rejects the offer and sells your car at below market value.

If not, you are a hypocrite.

Let the market determine what's successful and we will all win in the end. Get government involved and we are screwed. Been there, done that.

Glad you got your Flipping Truck!!!!!!!
My only issue with dealers is that I want to get full financial disclosure without having to do dentistry on a salesman! They can price the vehicle wherever the flip they want - Then I will be able to make a decision!
Well that, and verification that my order has in fact been ordered with my name on the order sheet.
These are simple accepted business practices in probably all other areas of retail sales!

 

[teh603]

I hear you, and measures to rein in shady dealers is not a bad thing. Unfortunately rules tend to only keep the honest people honest. A shady dealer will find a loophole, or even just break it and wait for the consequences.

That's because we only ever impose money penalties. Fines are literally just a cost of doing business, and chicken feed compared to the amount of profits someone can make violating the law.

What we need to be doing is seizing these peoples' assets- all of them- and barring them from ever holding even a DBA ever again.

 

[gte105u]

That's because we only ever impose money penalties. Fines are literally just a cost of doing business, and chicken feed compared to the amount of profits someone can make violating the law.

What we need to be doing is seizing these peoples' assets- all of them- and barring them from ever holding even a DBA ever again.

That would probably be more likely to work, but we both know it won't happen. There will be monetary fines after proof, investigation, etc. Then an appeals which will result in some settlement. It'll be so watered down in the end that nothing will really change. Tell me I'm wrong...

 

[Probity]

If you are concerned about dealers trying to stay financially afloat by tacking on margin on the few new vehicles they have available to sell then I am really hoping when you trade your car in and they offer you stupid good money, you are that wonderful person who rejects the offer and sells your car at below market value.

If not, you are a hypocrite.

Let the market determine what's successful and we will all win in the end. Get government involved and we are screwed. Been there, done that.

Don't agree with the points you try and make. "trying to stay financially afloat" - record profits for them in 2021 and 2022 so far compared to prior years, web search 'auto dealership profits' for numerous articles (WSJ, Forbes, NADA, Cox Automotive, etc). They are selling fewer vehicle and making way more $$ (especially franchised dealerships). Their 'margins' aren't limited to in-stock vehicles either; try and commit to an in-transit vehicle without getting hit with mandatory junk fees for N2 in tires/wheel locks/VIN etching/etc. (that haven't even been installed yet), good luck with that. Dealers in my area also are doing market value adjustments on in-transit vehicles.

The dealers have brought threatened gov. intervention on themselves through their current crappy pricing tactics. I too don't like or want any gov. entity determining an 'acceptable profit margin' for any industry. But they are not being driven to the poorhouse.

 

[MLowe05]

If you are concerned about dealers trying to stay financially afloat by tacking on margin on the few new vehicles they have available to sell then I am really hoping when you trade your car in and they offer you stupid good money, you are that wonderful person who rejects the offer and sells your car at below market value.

If not, you are a hypocrite.

Let the market determine what's successful and we will all win in the end. Get government involved and we are screwed. Been there, done that.

Flawed argument. You said "get the government involved and we are screwed" but the government is already involved thanks to the franchise laws that have been on the books for decades. You and I are not allowed to buy cars direct. That means the dealer already has the advantage - they own the game and make the rules.

Me making a profit from selling a car I own is not remotely the same thing.

 

[Finnster]

What we need to be doing is seizing these peoples' assets- all of them- and barring them from ever holding even a DBA ever again.

Hard Pass!
all we need is that all dealerships must post all their additional charges up front!
And for all you doctors and dentists out there - You can do the same. Not to widen the fight too much, lol.

 

[FriscoTXJoe]

Flawed argument. You said "get the government involved and we are screwed" but the government is already involved thanks to the franchise laws that have been on the books for decades. You and I are not allowed to buy cars direct. That means the dealer already has the advantage - they own the game and make the rules.

Me making a profit from selling a car I own is not remotely the same thing.

Let's play that game then Mr. Flawed Argument.

What you endorse (based on your vehement support for government intervention) is government setting the price of how much a dealership makes on a car.

Let's go with that. Now what else should the government mandate?

How much a used car is worth?
How much a salesperson makes on each sale?
How much a supplier can make on each screw, bolt and piece of wire?

The dealer has no such advantage. You are always welcome to walk away from any deal they offer. 100% up to you and only you to say no. If you can't, your problem. Just like the fools paying an extra $10K for a Mav that will lose value the day the drive it off the lot. Or like the people who have cleaned up selling a used vehicle in the last 2 years.

Funny how the marketplace works so well, isn't it? Or maybe we could be like that famous government controlled economy just east of Europe. You can have your choice of a high quality Lada, Gaz or Kamaz. Wouldn't that be great?

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