A Detailers Maverick Experience: Thin Paint, Ceramic Coating, Etc.

[ParagonDetail]

Are you reading all layers of the paint job? Electrocoat, primer, base, clear? How are you differentiating between the four separate coatings ?
The thickness of the paint has absolutely nothing to do with process times. The OEM's are not putting less paint on to speed up production. Regardless of paint thickness, 2 mills or 5 mils, the paint takes the same amount of time/temperature to cure. If anything the OEM paint suppliers, (I worked for one for 35 years), have been working on, and succeeding, at lower time-temperatures coatings because of cost but is has nothing to do with DFT. To your point if the coating can dry at 250F for 30 minutes vs. 350F for 45 minutes then yes production is sped up along with lowering energy costs.

Not entirely sure about that. I’m not a painter and I don’t work for a paint manufacture, so please elaborate. But I know the car manufactures are spraying the bare minimum these days. Any experienced detailer whos read paint over the years will tell you that it’s getting thinner. The amount of cars that come off the lot with little to no paint is astronomical compared to a decade or two ago.
I’m not going to get into a he said, she said but we have a chemist in the industry, Dr. David Ghoudussi. He was part of the team that created the modern day base coat/clear coat paint system and he still works with most of these manufacturers today. He also owns Optimum Polymer Technologies. I’ve had conversations with Dr. G, listened to him speak many times and have well researched these subjects. These manufacturers are figuring out how to put less paint on your car. Whether it’s to save money, time or whatever, it’s happening. They’ve had 30+ years to research these paint systems and with the introduction of e-coats, they dont need to spray that much paint on these cars anymore to make then last. But that leaves a lot less room for error and correction. As a detailer and someone who likes their vehicles to look nice, it’s disappointing. I see 20 year old cars with more clear coat on them than I have anywhere on my brand new truck. This obviously varies brand to brand but it’s very real.

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[ParagonDetail]

Today I received an R&D TC100 coating thickness gauge and used several standard “templates” to calibrate it…….25 microns, 50 microns, etc. I just went out and measured my Mav. It was not as scientific as the OP has done but I feel it is quite accurate since the gauge reads zero when zeroed and 49 microns when it’s really 50 and 103 microns when it’s really 100, etc, etc. It also reads zero again when finished and is still in calibration otherwise with the known test templates. One mil is 25.4 microns.

I took dozens of measurements all over the truck and the lowest I could find was around 4 mils at the top of the tailgate. Roof and hood were all consistently well over 5, some near 6 with an occasional 4.5-5.0. Fenders, doors etc also were all well over 4 total with most around 5. This is total base color, primer, clear coat, etc. Everything between bare metal and the probe. While I cannot separate into individual layers like the OP somehow did, I feel a lot more comfortable now than a few days ago. Since most automotive total paint thicknesses range from 4-7 mils total, the Mav, at least my current temporary one, seems to be pretty much in line with industry standards and nothing to write home about.

Mine is ceramic coated (Gtechniq) and I did apply some PPF to the leading edges/areas. I would highly encourage anyone wanting to keep their finish in great shape for years to do the same.

Nice, well done. Great choice in protection.
That’s good to hear. Yes, It will vary. I’ve seen brands like Tesla for example with 5-6 mils everywhere and the same year, model and color with 2-3 mils everywhere. Its very inconsistent. And I couldn’t tell you why. Tesla is my favorite example because nothing is the same between two given cars except for the consistent paint defects they all have

BTW, you aren’t reading them after ceramic coating the truck, right?

 

[AUTUS_FL]

It can help minimize the damage but to truly protect from rock chips you’ll have to PPF the front.

Thanks! I pushed back on the ceramic coating to this fall, so I can PPF the truck first. Received a quote for the PPF: $743.90 XPEL Ultimate installed, that’s for the front bumper, partial hood, partial fenders, and mirrors. And the Tint : $90.00 XPEL CS line installed, that's for the two front windows.
Total price: $833.90

 

[Kelli]

A ceramic coating will enhance the look of your paint overall. So if you have flake in there, it’s going to make it pop. If you have a flat color, it’s going to give it more rich look by adding depth and gloss. However, it won’t change the color of the vehicle.

I think Cyber Orange is close to the Tangerine Scream that was on the Focus ST and that color almost looks wet when it’s coated. Quite beautiful if you ask me.

Thank you!! Sounds great.

 

[ParagonDetail]

These numbers make a whole lot more sense than the OPs. You figure approx. .8-1.0 mils for the ecoat, another 1-1.2 for primer. .8-1.3 mils for base coat, (color dependent), then the rest for cleacoat. Also there is a thin layer of zinc or zirconium pretreatment.

Yeah you would figure. However that’s just not accurate. I take my paint gauge everywhere with me so trust me when I say there is a reason we carry them and use them. All of my readings were done multiple times.
Paint thickness can and will vary car to car. Another thing to consider is the amount of factory repaints, rotary swirls from polishing jobs, tape lines, etc us detailers find on new cars. Your car could have been painted and had to be repaired somewhere on the assembly line.

Side note: I had a buddy who worked at Tesla who sold cars but would also be asked to ”buff“ new cars before delivery. Terrible.

 

[Delzona]

I personally would not use one of those mop type mechanisms to wash your vehicle, it can greatly increase your chances of marring the paint when washing. I would look up two bucket wash method, pick a soap that is ceramic coating safe or ph neutral, and go about it in that way. Hope that helps.

I would add a third bucket dedicated to just tires and wheels only. Too many use the same bucket to wash wheels then the vehicle!

 

[projectvortex]

Nice, well done. Great choice in protection.
That’s good to hear. Yes, It will vary. I’ve seen brands like Tesla for example with 5-6 mils everywhere and the same year, model and color with 2-3 mils everywhere. Its very inconsistent. And I couldn’t tell you why. Tesla is my favorite example because nothing is the same between two given cars except for the consistent paint defects they all have

BTW, you aren’t reading them after ceramic coating the truck, right?

Readings were after ceramic coating which was after rotary polishing with Meguiars rubbing compound . There are a few areas I could still check that do not have it though. Ceramic only adds like 1/10 of a micron.

 

[ParagonDetail]

It looks wonderful, you did a great job! Do you have a product you'd recommend to rotate in with every few washes that would extend the life of the coating? Currently I wash with carpro reset and detail with Adam's Graphene detail spray, but I was considering getting a ceramic boost to rotate in with every third or fourth wash.

Lots of products. You’re doing a good job washing with reset, I would maybe do that every 6 months. Reset is meant to revive a coating that has maybe been neglected or is showing signs of wear. Typically I would say stay within the coating line, so maybe Adam’s Graphene detail spray would work. I personally dont believe in the whole graphene thing, it’s really a hype word or marketing gimmick. I have yet to see it proven. I’m a big fan of P&S Bead Maker, I use it every few washes on my personal vehicles. I also really like Gtechniq C2V3. If you put a sealant on it every month, that should really extend the life of your coating.

 

[ParagonDetail]

Did mine myself. Took about 4 hours. Looks like a mirror.

Well done, looks great

 

[ParagonDetail]

I'm not sure how many assembly plants you've been to. I've been to more than I care to admit, Toyota, GM, Chrysler, BMW & Ford plants. As I said I worked 35 years for an OEM paint supplier. In all those years I've never seen separate panels being painted. Now if you are talking about fascias, mirror housings, wheel flares, bodyside moldings, door handles, etc. then yes they are all painted separately as they are all from outside suppliers, (ask me how I know). Ford had what was called Color Harmony Meetings. All the suppliers went to the assembly plant to view their parts on the vehicle. Usually one or two got their asses handed to them, (again ask me how I know). My point is it would not be cost prohibitive to paint vehicle panels separately. There are color standards to be met. But there is also a problem with that. My parts could be in spec say with a deltaE of <1.2 but on the red side. If the body is say the same but on the green side then you have a mismatch. Also with the styling of today's vehicles and the colors being developed today the color could be dead nuts but seeing from a different angle makes it look like it is off-color.
I'm not being critical but these are my experiences.
BTW your Maverick looks fantastic. That is really nice work done by you.

Oh no hard feelings. I’m actually interested in your experience. Trust me, what you’re saying makes sense to me but what we see in detail shops all over the world is a different story.
I’m speaking specifically about Tesla here. And yes different shaded panels. Clear as day different shades. Like spent days around these cars polishing them and coating them and seeing them under many different light scenarios. And I’ve seen insane panel gaps. I know it’s documented quite well on the internet, and us detailers talk about it quite frequently.. I’ve seen this first hand dozens of times. Teslas with rotary swirls from the factory. It’s nuts. I know I have a video of a Plaid with 15 Miles on it that is just shredded.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

 

[ParagonDetail]

Thanks so much. My plan is basically to

• Two bucket wash the whole car with Adams Car Shampoo (ph neutral, no protectants)
• Adams Iron Remover, RInse and Dry
• Clay bar
• IPA Wipe
• Hopefully only need to polish with Meguiars Ultimate + their polish pad and a DA
  • Hand polish where necessary
• IPA Wipe
• Adams Ceramic Coat + Graphene all the surfaces

Let me know if you think that basically should do it! I have alto blue and think this will bring out a crazy depth to the paint

Looks good to me. Remember prep is 90% of the job. Take your time, work clean, be thorough and enjoy the process

P.S. Alto Blue will look fantastic coated!

 

[ParagonDetail]

@ParagonDetail
@MikeA131
(and others I may have missed)

I'm pretty far back on the learning curve on this topic. Rather than try to hit you up for recommended detailers in my area, just curious if there is some sort of trade group certification I could be looking for to at least have some idea that someone is competent and qualified?

It’s no problem at all. But Certified through the International Detailing Association at the least. If they are Skills Validated that is even better. They have worked hard to build a baseline for detailers in the industry. If they aren’t at least certified I would be cautious. I’m a proud member of The Detail Mafia and would go as far as to say find a Mafia member lol. You won’t be disappointed.

Side note: Im on the marketing/communications and social media committees for the IDA and we are finishing up a website called detailingnearby.com where you will be able to find an IDA supported detailer in your area. Look out for that soon.

 

[ParagonDetail]

Thanks! I pushed back on the ceramic coating to this fall, so I can PPF the truck first. Received a quote for the PPF: $743.90 XPEL Ultimate installed, that’s for the front bumper, partial hood, partial fenders, and mirrors. And the Tint : $90.00 XPEL CS line installed, that's for the two front windows.
Total price: $833.90

Very reasonable. Great job.

 

[ParagonDetail]

I would add a third bucket dedicated to just tires and wheels only. Too many use the same bucket to wash wheels then the vehicle!

Yea I hope that should go without saying

 

[ParagonDetail]

I would add a third bucket dedicated to just tires and wheels only. Too many use the same bucket to wash wheels then the vehicle!

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