Hybrid Mileage improvement with 100% ethanol-free gas

[Mavster Mechanic]

Ask A.I. about the electrical grid:
On the electrical grid:

"Generation Inefficiency: If you look at the raw energy (fuel) needed to produce electricity, 66% of that energy is wasted in the generation process, meaning only 34% of the original energy becomes electricity. 5% to 10% of that is lost due to resistance in the transmission wires before reaching your home, depending on distance from the generation station."

Makes local wind and local solar very attractive.

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[Darryl]

Recently, I accidentally grabbed the wrong nozzle at the gas pumps and filled my 2.5 Hybrid with what we call "real gas" around here. I noticed it when the pump was showing the price as 50¢ more per gallon than the price marquee showed for "Regular" (10% ethanol) gas. I did not notice the Octane rating, but it was just Regular ethanol-free, not mid-Grade or Premium - all of which are available here. I grumbled to myself about filling the truck with more expensive fuel than I normally do, and quickly forgot about it.

Later, I kept noticing the mileage was consistently at least 5 MPG better than what I was used to. It finally hit me that it might be the real gas is giving better MPG. In the past, I've tried higher octane gas, but it still contained ethanol; and it made no difference in my Hybrid's mileage, vs ethanol gas of lower octane.

Anyone else experience the same thing in their Hybrid Mavericks?

That's Exactly the case. Octane makes little difference whether EcoBoost or hybrid. But the ethanol does. The only reason I don't use it is because the difference in price more than negates the improvement in MPG. In my neck of the woods, ethanol free costs almost as much as premium.

 

[Darryl]

It's commonly cited it takes 0.5 gallon of gasoline to put 1 gallon of gasoline at the pump in a best case scenario (modern refinery, lower transportation).
And it takes 0.75 gallon of gasoline to put 1 gallon of gasoline at the pump worst case scenario, old refinery, more transportation.

Ethanol production is about the same. Too close to argue over with modern (post year 2000) facilities.

But like someone else said, dinosaurs went out of business eons ago.

100% of ethanol burned this year grows back next year. Literally.

In a world without oil, we could continue making ethanol by making 75% more of it and using some for transport.

It does not all need to come from corn. Any starch. Any sugar works easily. Even wood and used paper works. But it's more difficult.

And there are other bio fuels.
Bio-Butanol is closer to gasoline in miles per gallon. Methanol is lower than ethanol but you could use it.
Also bio-diesel. Plant based oils work about as well as dino-diesel.

I believe in an "all of the above" approach.

THIS!!! A reasonable all of the above approach. I say the same for (gasp) EVs. When people mention that driving an EV with electricity produced by coal is just as dirty as driving a gasoline fueled vehicle (not true) , I mention that the gasoline fueled vehicle is stuck at the emissions level that it was manufactured with. But the EV emissions actually improve if the source of electricity production improves. If a power plant switches to natural gas vs coal. The same EV becomes cleaner. If production switches to a renewable, it's cleaner still. Not saying that everyone should switch to this or that kind of vehicle. But accurate information should be used when making decisions on what is best for our particular needs and wants.

 

[Timothyd]

It is commonly mentioned that it takes more than a gallon of oil to make a gallon of ethanol.

What I haven't seen is a figure for how much oil is consumed to create a gallon of gasoline.

There's plenty of information on that I've seen but it's often cryptic as the energy source isn't oil. What I wonder about is how much energy is wasted with those giant flares at the refineries. Plenty of heat/energy not being utilized there.

 

[Cherokee]

Makes local wind and local solar very attractive.

The windmills are not cost effective, you should watch the Landman skit on that.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

The windmills are not cost effective, you should watch the Landman skit on that.

I don't watch much fiction these days.

 

[Cherokee]

I don't watch much fiction these days.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

In real life:

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

The windmills are not cost effective, you should watch the Landman skit on that.

Fictional shows like that are a dis-service to the public.

 

[Timothyd]

The windmills are not cost effective, you should watch the Landman skit on that.

I worked on components for those. VERY involved/ complicated/ expensive. Dubious efficency.

 

[Cherokee]

Our infra is based on 120 year crude oil supply
Fact.
We have to find something better before we run out of oil.
Fact.
We are doing nothing.
Fact.
There is not enough lithium in the world to build electric cars for everyone in just the United States.
Fact.

Now I know every point I made will be disputed.
I don’t really care but knowing sucks. It’s your children that will face this.

Hybrids need to last 25 years and 500,000 miles on one ICE and one battery pack.

Think,
Engines/ICE,
Brushless electric motors
And Batteries all need to last
25-30 years and go 500,000 miles.

I got a 2008 2..7 Ltr Toyota 4 banger
To give me 528,000 trouble free miles on 10,000 mile oil change intervals.
All these miles were severe miles.
800 pound average cargo load,
150,000 were pulling a 2,000 5x8 enclosed
Trailer.
But I don’t know nothing, I’m a nobody.
I can’t brag :’P

We should never see a transmission failure.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

There's plenty of information on that I've seen but it's often cryptic as the energy source isn't oil. What I wonder about is how much energy is wasted with those giant flares at the refineries. Plenty of heat/energy not being utilized there.

Refinery flares are the last resort problem solver. Maybe some out of spec crude entered the Refinery and some product has been created that is not useable and cannot be stored or diverted to be reprocessed. So it has to be flared to convert it into a non life threatening product released. Could be a good product but just more than could be stored. Say some light crude which makes more light products per barrel than the refinery designed to process heavy crude somehow entered the stream.

 

[Timothyd]

Our infra is based on 120 year crude oil supply
Fact.
We have to find something better before we run out of oil.
Fact.
We are doing nothing.
Fact.
There is not enough lithium in the world to build electric cars for everyone in just the United States.
Fact.

Now I know every point I made will be disputed.
I don’t really care but knowing sucks. It’s your children that will face this.

Hybrids need to last 25 years and 500,000 miles on one ICE and one battery pack.

Think,
Engines/ICE,
Brushless electric motors
And Batteries all need to last
25-30 years and go 500,000 miles.

I got a 2008 2..7 Ltr Toyota 4 banger
To give me 528,000 trouble free miles on 10,000 mile oil change intervals.
All these miles were severe miles.
800 pound average cargo load,
150,000 were pulling a 2,000 5x8 enclosed
Trailer.
But I don’t know nothing, I’m a nobody.
I can’t brag :’P

We should never see a transmission failure.

On the other hand, it's a gas hog and our consumption needs to go waaay down. In everything.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

Refinery flares are the last resort problem solver. Maybe some out of spec crude entered the Refinery and some product has been created that is not useable and cannot be stored or diverted to be reprocessed. So it has to be flared to convert it into a non life threatening product released. Could be a good product but just more than could be stored. Say some light crude which makes more light products per barrel than the refinery designed to process heavy crude somehow entered the stream.

Flaring occurs "mostly" when something breaks down / shuts down. The refinery has momentum. Like a moving train. If there is a hiccup, a derailment in the middle, flaring is better than spilling stuff on the ground.

It's controlled chaos.

See also "pressure relief valve".

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

[QUOTE="Cherokee...
"Our infra is based on 120 year crude oil supply
Fact.
We have to find something better before we run out of oil.
Fact."

"We are doing nothing."
FALSE. We are not doing enough.

"There is not enough lithium in the world to build electric cars for everyone in just the United States."
Sort of. But not a big deal. There is enough lithium in known reserves to build 500,000,000 100 kwh battery packs. But it's still in the ground and expensive to mine. There's almost unlimited lithium in sea water. But it's not cost effective to extract it. There are many other alternatives so not a silver bullet in the first place. We like it, because it is half the weight of water. But there are alternatives. Now

"Hybrids need to last 25 years and 500,000 miles on one ICE and one battery pack."

Yes. That would be great.
Equally great and maybe more practical will be 50 horsepower cars and light trucks that last 10 years. High horsepower is wasteful. It only serves your ego. 250 HP can and should be hauling 80,000 pounds of goods. Not hauling your proverbial ass.

"Think,
Engines/ICE,
Brushless electric motors
And Batteries all need to last
25-30 years and go 500,000 miles."

Think downsize, reduce, recycle, reuse.

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