Pay-per-mile vs Gas Tax

[22XLThybrid]

Here in Washington they are proposing to replace state gas tax with a pay-per-mile charge. Claim the EV's and to a lesser extent hybrids are not paying their fare share of the road tax. Supposedly Oregon and three other states have some sort of pay-per-mile program. If you are in one of these states I'd like to hear how it is working out for you. If not, any general comments? In the example I saw if you even average 25 MPG you will pay more with the new plan than you do with Washington's gas tax. There is also talk of just charging hybrids more to register per year. I remember when you were encouraged to drive a car that was good on gas.....

Pennsylvania has a flat tax on EVs and PHEV not on HEV. I mean I get it with the EV. You've got something that's heavier than most cars tearing up the roads, not paying their way, and Pennsylvania has a lot of road mileage damaged by winter. If you have PHEV And never plug it in, you're really dumb because your paying the tax and lugging around the extra battery with your gasoline. Maybe that should be an incentive to plug it in. Probably would have to calculate what the break even point is for the flat tax versus mileage to see which would help or hurt you. A garage queen is just a waste with the flat tax.

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[Glen Baker LLC]

Pennsylvania has a flat tax on EVs and PHEV not on HEV. I mean I get it with the EV. You've got something that's heavier than most cars tearing up the roads, not paying their way, and Pennsylvania has a lot of road mileage damaged by winter. If you're in the crowd that has a PHEV And never plugs it in. You're really dumb because your paying the tax and logging around the extra battery with your gasoline. Maybe that should be an incentive to plug it in. Probably would have to calculate what the break even point is for the flat tax versus mileage to see which would help or hurt you.

It's funny that you mention owning a phev and not plugging it in. Clark County Nevada owned a dozen Chevy Volts and Ford Fusion plug-in hybrids and Never plug them in.
When they were sold at the TNT auctions it was like they had slightly used batteries in them. My former neighbor bought one of the Volts after he saw mine. He had good luck with it.

 

[22XLThybrid]

It's funny that you mention owning a phev and not plugging it in. Clark County Nevada owned a dozen Chevy Volts and Ford Fusion plug-in hybrids and Never plug them in.
When they were sold at the TNT auctions it was like they had slightly used batteries in them. My former neighbor bought one of the Volts after he saw mine. He had good luck with it.

They probably had some state or federal incentive originally to buy them. And then didn't have any charging infrastructure or plan or motivation. Which they could have just done 120 volt stations for that, overnight and saved thousands in municipal funding for gasoline.

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

They probably had some state or federal incentive originally to buy them. And then didn't have any charging infrastructure or plan or motivation. Which they could have just done 120 volt stations for that, overnight and saved thousands in municipal funding for gasoline.

None of the Clark County, Las Vegas community or mental health centers, courts where the cars were parked, had any type of charging infrastructure at that time.
If they were plugged into 110v with heavy duty cords those cords would be missing before the sun thought about coming up.
If Tweakers are willing to open up light poles to steal the copper, they would have stolen those cords in a New York minute.
If homeless and tweakers are willing to do this for copper, how is a plug-in hybrid safe accepting your garage?


This is why owning and charging an EV at home/city can be risky and costly. Imagine, someone is willing to do this for copper.
I guess they won't be doing that again.

 

[Surly Old Bill]

Try to name a country where this doesn't happen!

why, Mother Russia and Cuba, of course! Ask them if there is any corruption and they'll let you know it does not exist. Neither do homosexuals.

 

[Prickly Pear]

Flat rate charges for EV's and hybrids are unfair to those that only drive a few thousand miles a year, and allow high mileage drivers to not pay their fair share of road maintainence.

 

[Ranko Kohime]

Interestingly enough, same deal here in NC as we pay property tax on the vehicles as well. My neighbors have a Maserati, Denali, and Acura and all three have expired registration or just have the temp stick on the plate from when they first bought it.

The anarchists are voting with their wallets. I approve.

 

[First Sergeant]

None of the Clark County, Las Vegas community or mental health centers, courts where the cars were parked, had any type of charging infrastructure at that time.
If they were plugged into 110v with heavy duty cords those cords would be missing before the sun thought about coming up.
If Tweakers are willing to open up light poles to steal the copper, they would have stolen those cords in a New York minute.
If homeless and tweakers are willing to do this for copper, how is a plug-in hybrid safe accepting your garage?


This is why owning and charging an EV at home/city can be risky and costly. Imagine, someone is willing to do this for copper.
I guess they won't be doing that again.

Had thieves going along the railroad track stealing copper overhead lines buck n the 90's. Those are only 12V lines, so not dangerous. They had reels mounted on back of truck, similar to wht power companies have. Stole miles and miles over a few weeks, just driving along pulling them down as they reeled them up! The signal system would go dark, so coming up on a signal, it would be blacked out. Immediate stop and call dispatch. Proceed at restricted speed (lingo not exceeding 20 mph and able to stop in half your range of vision), until you came upon a lit up signal. Here is a trivia question you can use, Why is a railroad signal green on the top instead of like a normal street signal, which is red? And the RR bottom signal is the red one? Right answers win you... Nothing, except

 

[MaverickDragon]

Try to name a country where this doesn't happen!

Easy.
Oz.
But then they mostly either walk or travel by hot air balloon.

 

[dochawk]

Try to name a country where this doesn't happen!

Freedonia

Pennsylvania has a flat tax on EVs and PHEV not on HEV. I mean I get it with the EV. You've got something that's heavier than most cars tearing up the roads, not paying their way, and Pennsylvania has a lot of road mileage damaged by winter.

If memory serves, road wear goes up geometrically with weight (not linearly, not exponentially).

If Tweakers are willing to open up light poles to steal the copper, t

The house next door to my old one got stripped by the copper thieves 20 years ago.

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when the fence told them to beat it, as they'd stolen aluminum, not copper (it was used in the desert for a couple of years in the late 60s. Kind of a pain to have!)

 

[Triangle6887]

They do pay for that. That's why diesel fuel taxes are so high compared to gasoline taxes to compensate for that.

I don't know about other states, but where I am regular gasoline and diesel are both taxed at 40 cents/gallon.

 

[Pointyears]

I don't know about other states, but where I am regular gasoline and diesel are both taxed at 40 cents/gallon.

In the US, is diesel fuel taxed at a higher rate than unleaded gasoline?

> In the United States, diesel fuel is generally taxed at a higher rate than
> unleaded gasoline at the federal level, and this can also be true at the state
> level, although specific rates and differences can vary by state.
>
> ### Federal Taxes:
> - **Gasoline**: The federal excise tax rate is 18.4 cents per gallon.
> - **Diesel**: The federal excise tax rate is 24.4 cents per gallon.
>
> This means that at the federal level, diesel is taxed 6 cents more per gallon
> than gasoline.
>
> ### State Taxes:
> - State tax rates for both gasoline and diesel vary significantly. While many
> states do have higher taxes on diesel, the exact difference can range from a
> small to significant margin.
> - In some states, diesel taxes are structured to include additional components
> such as environmental fees or transportation-related surcharges.
>
> ### Reason for Difference:
> The higher tax rate on diesel is often justified by the increased wear and tear
> on roadways caused by heavy diesel vehicles like trucks. The revenue from diesel
> taxes is often allocated for highway maintenance and infrastructure projects.
>
> For specifics, it’s advisable to check the current state-specific fuel tax rates
> as they can change due to legislative updates and other policy changes.

 

[Pointyears]

In the US, is diesel fuel taxed at a higher rate than unleaded gasoline?

> In the United States, diesel fuel is generally taxed at a higher rate than
> unleaded gasoline at the federal level, and this can also be true at the state
> level, although specific rates and differences can vary by state.
>
> ### Federal Taxes:
> - **Gasoline**: The federal excise tax rate is 18.4 cents per gallon.
> - **Diesel**: The federal excise tax rate is 24.4 cents per gallon.
>
> This means that at the federal level, diesel is taxed 6 cents more per gallon
> than gasoline.
>
> ### State Taxes:
> - State tax rates for both gasoline and diesel vary significantly. While many
> states do have higher taxes on diesel, the exact difference can range from a
> small to significant margin.
> - In some states, diesel taxes are structured to include additional components
> such as environmental fees or transportation-related surcharges.
>
> ### Reason for Difference:
> The higher tax rate on diesel is often justified by the increased wear and tear
> on roadways caused by heavy diesel vehicles like trucks. The revenue from diesel
> taxes is often allocated for highway maintenance and infrastructure projects.
>
> For specifics, it’s advisable to check the current state-specific fuel tax rates
> as they can change due to legislative updates and other policy changes.

1. **Pennsylvania**: Known for having the highest diesel tax rate in the
country, significantly more than its gasoline tax.
2. **Indiana**: Higher diesel tax to cater to the trucking industry, reflecting
infrastructure usage.
3. **California**: High diesel taxes are often used to fund extensive
transportation infrastructure projects.
4. **Illinois**: Notable for relatively high taxes on both gasoline and diesel,
with diesel slightly higher.
5. **Washington**: Taxes diesel at a higher rate due to its infrastructure
priorities.
6. **Florida**: Diesel taxes are typically slightly higher, reflecting state
funding needs.
7. **North Carolina**: The diesel tax is generally higher than gasoline as a
part of a strategy to fund highway improvements.
8. **Michigan**: Follows a similar trend with diesel often taxed higher to fund
state infrastructure.
9. **Virginia**: Diesel taxes are sometimes higher, influenced by transportation
funding strategies.
10. **Kentucky**: Has been known to tax diesel slightly more than gasoline to
support road projects.
11. **Wisconsin**: Similarly, diesel is often taxed at a higher rate than
gasoline here.
12. **Georgia**: Higher diesel taxes help fund infrastructure improvements.
13. Other states may have narrower gaps or variable rates due to floating tax
components or legislative changes.
******

Guess who lives in Pennsylvania with a diesel RV?

 

[rmay635703]

Here in Washington they are proposing to replace state gas tax with a pay-per-mile charge. Claim the EV's and to a lesser extent hybrids are not paying their fare share of the road tax. Supposedly Oregon and three other states have some sort of pay-per-mile program. If you are in one of these states I'd like to hear how it is working out for you. If not, any general comments? In the example I saw if you even average 25 MPG you will pay more with the new plan than you do with Washington's gas tax. There is also talk of just charging hybrids more to register per year. I remember when you were encouraged to drive a car that was good on gas.....

Sounds like they want to subsidize a special interest with billions of dollars of income to solve a problem that doesn’t exist.

1. 99% of road damage is caused by vehicles (and rural non-vehicle equipment) weighing above 10,000lbs. If a private car has a “fair share” it’s near zero.

2. In the entire country road taxes of all types (including registration and vehicle sales/title) DO NOT pay for a majority of roads with actual road funding overwhelmingly coming from GENERAL FUNDS.

3. In situations where vehicles are tracked it’s usually used for nefarious reasons to double insurance and other unavoidable costs for no reason. Tracking is never beneficial to anyone and never reduces cost.

4. Commercial trucking lobbies push heavily for these types of systems to offload their “fair share” to consumers who use roads minimally.

5. High fixed registration, title and per mile schemes on privately owned sedans/coupes are regressive hurting the middle class and poor and may well be unconstitutional as being a feigned factor.
In the cases where driving isn’t possible for a person to afford it’s much more likely said driver will simply stop paying for title, plates and insurance.

in every case where insurance was made mandatory and registration fees went up dramatically, collections actually did not increase as much as expected because the number of uninsured/unregistered vehicles skyrocketed.

good reason for private plates to only cost the notory and to keep insurance cheap and non-mandatory.

increased enforcement has proven impossible and extraordinarily expensive and isn’t a solution either as it never works.

 

[Prickly Pear]

Since the price of gas is up I was checking to see what Washington was doing with road usage charging. They claim "Four states have adopted RUC programs: Utah, Oregon, Virginia, and Hawaii "
If any members are from those states I'd love to hear anything you can share about the programs. Is it voluntary and are any of you in it if it is?

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