2025 Maverick AWD Hybrid vs Ike (The world's toughest towing test) by TFL

[Tom 71 Maverick 24]

100% true. the most dangerous of any of the Colorado highways are definitely the 2 lane when semis are climbing. people get impatient and do really stupid stuff.

but on that section, yes, it's very common to see semis doing 40 or less. passing them is a given.

Here in eastern Tennessee, we have a few good sized climbs, like the locally famous I-24 where it climbs up to pass through Monteagle from the east, and other interstates passing through the Appalachian area. I drive up to Ohio often, and that stretch northbound on I-75 has the necessary truck lane, but going southbound, its only 2 lanes and creates an issue at times. Perhaps some day, they'll add that third lane.

Anyway, on these steep hills, trucks generally are going way below the posted speed limit. I would be inclined to drop my speed a bit up those long steep climbs just to save wear and tear if nothing else.

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[Phimosis]

That's an interesting idea. as I'm sure you know, originally hybrids used much smaller engines to maximize fuel economy, like a 1.5L. but many are larger now - even the Prius has a 2.0L these days.

I had really only expected Ford to pair turbocharged 4s with hybrid for the next power category, and they definitely could. But given the not-great mpg of the 3.5L ecoboost hybrid in the F-150 PowerBoost, maybe they could do a larger atkinson cycle engine to address that niche better.

The niche being towing more and actually delivering better mpg than a non-hybrid / gas-only powertrain when not towing.

It's super expensive developing a complete engine, and Ford (like everyone else) was focused heavily on BEV for a while. I think it would need to be larger displacement as you can't turbocharge an atkinson cycle engine since the intake valve stays open so long. But how much bigger could this current block support, if any increase at all? Even if they got it to 2.7L, that is probably not enough for an F-150 which might need to be like a 3.0L inline 6 or something similar.

You can turbocharge a LIVC engine (late intake valve closing). But then it adds an additional cycle as intake charge is blown back out of the cylinder as the piston comes up, effectively splitting the compression into 2 cycles, making it a 5 stroke engine. The results are similar to Atkinson cycle with 15% decrease in pumping losses, but poor low rpm torque. Ships and trains use this technique to decrease fuel costs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_cycle

 

[colinl]

You can turbocharge a LIVC engine (late intake valve closing). But then it adds an additional cycle as intake charge is blown back out of the cylinder as the piston comes up, effectively splitting the compression into 2 cycles, making it a 5 stroke engine. The results are similar to Atkinson cycle with 15% decrease in pumping losses, but poor low rpm torque. Ships and trains use this technique to decrease fuel costs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_cycle

Mazda Millennia had a miller cycle engine. a friend's dad owned one and it was terrible.

 

[bluesteel]

I hope they re-test the Hybrid in similar weather to what it was when they tested the EB. And without a traffic jam in the downhill section. It's hard to weigh just how much that affected the number of brake applications.

Agree... overall I was impressed, but really TFL should've re-done the downhill test. That jam-up erased any semblance of a scientific comparison.

 

[Phimosis]

Mazda Millennia had a miller cycle engine. a friend's dad owned one and it was terrible.

Yeah, but the Millenia is not a hybrid and they used a positive displacement supercharger to help improve low end torque, which is the worst of both worlds: the parasitic loss of the supercharger negates most of the thermodynamic gains of the miller cycle and the low end torque is still worse than an Otto cycle or hybrid electric motor.

I’m pretty sure that If someone brought a new turbocharged miller cycle hybrid to market that they could get it to work better than a much larger Atkinson cycle engine. Like, I’m envisioning a 1.5 liter miller cycle engine that makes 200 hp and 200 lb/ft of torque from 3,000-5,000 rpm. That would be a 25% power bump over the 2.5L N/A Atkinson engine and would make the Maverick hybrid nearly adequate for towing.

 

[Jimmac]

Impressive! They maxed it out. Actually over max as the tongue weight was about 500lbs. Also at 11,000 feet of elevation it would be down on power (about 33% less power). It did everything about as good as the mid size trucks and the down hill part even better.

Yes, while impressive for a one time trat I would not suggest doing this very much with the hybrid. The CVT transmission will fall apart long before 100k miles of you try to do this regularly. The normal 8 speed transmission of the Maverick non-hybrid will hold up better but really at 4k pounds trailer if you are going to be doing this often then a ranger is a much better solution. Typically you should not tow more than about 1/2 your rated capacity of you want your vehicle to survive without transmission failure over the long haul.

 

[inline_five]

Yeah, but the Millenia is not a hybrid and they used a positive displacement supercharger to help improve low end torque, which is the worst of both worlds: the parasitic loss of the supercharger negates most of the thermodynamic gains of the miller cycle and the low end torque is still worse than an Otto cycle or hybrid electric motor.

I’m pretty sure that If someone brought a new turbocharged miller cycle hybrid to market that they could get it to work better than a much larger Atkinson cycle engine. Like, I’m envisioning a 1.5 liter miller cycle engine that makes 200 hp and 200 lb/ft of torque from 3,000-5,000 rpm. That would be a 25% power bump over the 2.5L N/A Atkinson engine and would make the Maverick hybrid nearly adequate for towing.

One big plus of the Maverick hybrid is the simplicity of the drivetrain. Normally aspirated, tried and true engine with a dead simple transmission. Giving it more power, reducing efficiency, and increasing complexity and cost is outside its mission scope IMO.

If you want to tow large loads up steep grades the Maverick (including Ecoboost) isn't the vehicle to buy.

IMO

 

[The Real Maverick]

Yes, while impressive for a one time trat I would not suggest doing this very much with the hybrid. The CVT transmission will fall apart long before 100k miles of you try to do this regularly. The normal 8 speed transmission of the Maverick non-hybrid will hold up better but really at 4k pounds trailer if you are going to be doing this often then a ranger is a much better solution. Typically you should not tow more than about 1/2 your rated capacity of you want your vehicle to survive without transmission failure over the long haul.

The eCVT (not a real cvt) is THE BEST transmission for hauling and towing.
I'll bet you pink slips it will out live the 8 speed of the EcoBoost. Wanna bet?

Please stay in your lane here.
(I've been towing with a Ford eCVT since 2005. That's right, 20 years.)

Transmission is probably the strongest most robust most reliable nearly bullet proof part of this truck! The eCVT (not a traditional cvt) NEVER fail. They don't even generate much heat. Yes I measured. Then I quit measuring transmission temperature because it's a non issue in a planetary gear set.

They really should not call it a CVT in a hybrid. It screws up the minds of the non-initiated!

 

[Scupking]

The eCVT (not a real cvt) is THE BEST transmission for hauling and towing.
I'll bet you pink slips it will out live the 8 speed of the EcoBoost. Wanna bet?

Please stay in your lane here.
(I've been towing with a Ford eCVT since 2005. That's right, 20 years.)

Transmission is probably the strongest most robust most reliable nearly bullet proof part of this truck! The eCVT (not a traditional cvt) NEVER fail. They don't even generate much heat. Yes I measured. Then I quit measuring transmission temperature because it's a non issue in a planetary gear set.

They really should not call it a CVT in a hybrid. It screws up the minds of the non-initiated!

Exactly.. They should call it a PGT (Planetary Gear Transmission). To many people think it is a typical belt CVT.

 

[23grayXLT84]

The eCVT (not a real cvt) is THE BEST transmission for hauling and towing.
I'll bet you pink slips it will out live the 8 speed of the EcoBoost. Wanna bet?

Please stay in your lane here.
(I've been towing with a Ford eCVT since 2005. That's right, 20 years.)

Transmission is probably the strongest most robust most reliable nearly bullet proof part of this truck! The eCVT (not a traditional cvt) NEVER fail. They don't even generate much heat. Yes I measured. Then I quit measuring transmission temperature because it's a non issue in a planetary gear set.

They really should not call it a CVT in a hybrid. It screws up the minds of the non-initiated!

As long as it's put together correctly.
Mine has a leak I plan to bring up at next oil change. I know where it is and the fix makes me cringe considering how involved it will be. Little over 10k miles.

 

[Tony Pandy]

Here in eastern Tennessee, we have a few good sized climbs, like the locally famous I-24 where it climbs up to pass through Monteagle from the east, and other interstates passing through the Appalachian area. I drive up to Ohio often, and that stretch northbound on I-75 has the necessary truck lane, but going southbound, its only 2 lanes and creates an issue at times. Perhaps some day, they'll add that third lane.

Anyway, on these steep hills, trucks generally are going way below the posted speed limit. I would be inclined to drop my speed a bit up those long steep climbs just to save wear and tear if nothing else.

Good Idea to drop speed / throttle to keep from overheating etc.

We travel 441 North of Franklin NC (If you know where Gold City Gem Mine is located on 441) starts 7 - 8% grade. We travel in a Motorhome sometimes pulling a TOAD, I drive by my Temperature gauges (Trans, Cylinder head, Coolant) and RPM's I'll back off the throttle if the Temps start climbing more than I like. I'm still usually passing 18 Wheeler's. I think speed limit is 50 or 55 MPH and By the crest I still maintain 45 with a lot of throttle. Just some common sense to prolong drive train life.

 

[bluesteel]

I think it's important to understand and acknowledge that TFL always tests vehicles at, or sometimes slightly beyond, their tow limits in this torture test. That's the whole point. It wouldn't be a great idea to push any of them to the limit on a regular basis.

I hope someone creates a thread about the off-road test they did with the same Mav before the towing test, where it performed less impressively (I don't want to!). (found)

 

[colinl]

I hope someone creates a thread about the off-road test they did with the same Mav before the towing test, where it performed less impressively (I don't want to!).

it already exists.

 

[Tony Pandy]

That Towing test left a few unanswered questions for me. What I would of liked to have seen 1) Actual Trailer / cargo weight utilizing a CAT scale 2) What the total GCW was again CAT Scale. The 2025 Hydrid with AWD / 4K tow pgk has a GCVW of 8,315 lbs, How close to this number was the test done. 3) Utilizing after market Gauges (Bully or ScanGauge III) to see real time data such as RPM's, Temperatures etc. 4) Did this test include trailer brakes ? if yes surge or utilizing the built-in Ford Brake Controller and How did they set it up for the braking number of times they talked about.

I have 40 plus years towing experience with various Vehicles. Just some unanswered questions.

Oh, I would like to see the exact same run on a hot summer day to compare to the cold winter day.
My 25 Lariat w/ 4K Pkg isn't going to be my workhorse for heavy towing up mountains, Just info. I like to know.

 

[bluesteel]

it already exists.

Oh, thanks! I am not a daily visitor and had been looking in the wrong forums.

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