Would you buy an EV maverick for 25-30k?

[Gonzo chris]

I suspect a lot of the negative reactions are coming from the fact that BEVs are effectively being forced on people. With some states claiming they will ban the sale of ICE vehicles in some years. Any kind of forced cooperation is going to get backlash, its human nature.

One negative of this enforced EV conversion is that the technology is not being given the time it needs to mature before widespread adoption. The effect is that we are getting vehicles on the road with sometimes questionable safety, and fairly unpractical for most needs. This gives the BEVs a bad name. Early adopters are effectively beta testers for EVs right now. On that note, CR has consistently found BEVs to be less reliable on average then their ICE or hybrid counterparts.

People not wanting to be beta testers, does not make them haters.



Knowing that new products will tend to have more failures, and wanting to avoid that, is certainly not fear. Thats an educated approach that has served many well.

Timelines change if they're not ready for prime time in the infrastructure isn't there. The government isn't going to have us walking down the interstate. The way you get products ready for prime time is to get them out to market and get investment dollars and then the way you do that is to get people to buy them. Incentives are one of those ways. They should not be forced on people as you say prematurely but incentives are not being forced. If they're not ready but a time any kind of ice ban comes in that ban will be postponed. As for the government forcing things, that's what governments do. They are called laws. Like I might want to drive 100 miles an hour to my street but the speed limit is 25. I don't want to drive that fast down there but you get my drift

Sponsored

 

[Gonzo chris]

You're missing the point.

With all the "shat" you mention above being pushed on you, from all directions......you still have a CHOICE to take the shat. Or not. You decide.

This is the heart of the matter. CHOICE. ICE is being forced out of the market for political reasons, not consumer choice (preference).

Maybe you prefer BEV, so you're not too bothered by this. Consider the possibility that the next thing to be banned might just be something you actually prefer. Perhaps no more heating your home with natural gas? No more back yard BBQ's? Where does it end?

And no, anything "bad" should never get a pass. Truth needs to start taking center stage.

It's always a fine line. Maybe you prefer lead in your paint or the company that makes your paint likes to put lead in it. Why should they be forced not to? You're not allowed to burn leaves or I live, but it's okay. We've made it through it. But I get it. Some things can go too far. Personally, my house used to be heated by oil. I got rid of that boiler in 2017 and put in Mitsubishi mini split hyper heats and an HPwH for domestic hot water and I couldn't be happier. Even on the coldest winter month, my highest electric bill with everything electric in the house is maybe $250. I used to spend $400 a month or more just on oil alone in a month that cold not to mention electricity. Of course my father-in-law continues to say there's no way to heat your house without burning something by you know he's 74.....

 

[Gonzo chris]

Or maybe not force it on the consumer. Every major problem that has faced us we figure out.
Ev may more than likely not be the future.

Where is the power gonna come from? What about the batteries? I wish people would stop going to that. It’s only the future if it’s forced and then may not even work.

Please explain how not planning would cause a bailout. Selling consumers what they want has never lead to a need for a bailout. The last time they needed a bailout was the same thing. They stopped innovating and were selling stuff people didn’t want.
Fact is we don’t know what the future is. I’m old enough to remember when e85 was the future. Until it wasn’t. If the consumers want ev’s and they fill the roll. They will have no reason to bail them out. But where it stands now they are all losing money on bad business decisions. Not lead by consumers at all.

You're in the United States bubble. I live here too. We sold 17 million cars here last year. China sold 21 million. How many did they sell there 10. 15 years ago? That market is growing. Ours isn't. Buick says China is their biggest market, Europe is going electric. Unless you think the United States manufacturers can just make gas trucks for your and that's fine then they're going to have to go electric or go out of business sooner or later. They're not bad business decisions. They're investments in the future.

 

[Gonzo chris]

Thanks! It should make travel easier but honestly I don't drive the Mustang that much. Not because I have range anxiety, fear of cold weather driving, or anything like that I just don't like putting the miles on it.

Unfortunately the Mustang only has a max of 150 kw and the best I've seen is around 125 last summer when we took a trip from Peoria IL to Cleveland OH and back to visit family so I will never be able to take full advantage of the higher voltage that newer EVs can.

Anyway, sorry to everyone for derailing the thread. It looks like @Gonzo chris is on a streak right of stirring shit up so I don't want to get in the way.

Just found the thread, after happy hour...lol

 

[Gonzo chris]

Your right about oil. I don't know if your realized it but oil is not rare or considered rare. Also the gas they are making that doesn't make carbon dioxide is synthetic and doesn't use oil, that I am aware of. If I read it correctly it is made from plants. Porsche is the one working on that. Toyota is working on an engine that removes carbon dioxide. There is some hiccups synthetic gas is to costly at this time and Toyota engine is an infancy and not ready for mass production. The point I'm making is electric is no way Americans are buying into it. As technology increase it may become but before that happens there are several avenues that maybe better. Especially if they can use the same infrastructure or gas stations that already exists.

I can tell your all gung-ho about EV even though many besides myself have made great points why not to buy or why we will not buy EV, at least at this point in time.

I'm not necessarily gung- ho just realistic and open minded. I love Porsche but synthetic fuel is not going to be made enough to power every time and it will be expensive as well but they should make it anyway as id always like to see internal combustion sports cars

 

[Hunters Edge]

I'm not necessarily gung- ho just realistic and open minded. I love Porsche but synthetic fuel is not going to be made enough to power every time and it will be expensive as well but they should make it anyway as id always like to see internal combustion sports cars

Gullible could be another term. Definitely not realistic.

Then again if they have batteries that get 700 to 900 miles and only takes 10 minutes on a fast charge to get 80% it may be an option. If the replacement battery is reasonably priced. Which still could make ownership cost prohibited.

 

[MaverickEVwouldBeNice]

Neither do electric motors. I don't know but was told a AWD or 4x4 would need a electric motor at each wheel. If that is correct it can be very costly, as well as insurance premiums.

They need one motor per axle, not one per wheel.

 

[Hunters Edge]

They need one motor per axle, not one per wheel.

Thanks that makes more sense.

 

[MaverickEVwouldBeNice]

I think my answer is obvious

We already own an EV, we replaced my husband's Golf GTI with the Maverick.

While I doubt that the price will be significantly below $30K, it will be worth replacing my hybrid Maverick with an BEV version.

I already know that all the fear mongering about rising electricity costs and power outages because of EVs are just that: fear mongering.

 

[MaverickEVwouldBeNice]

That electricity comes from coal, oil, natural gas, wind, solar or nuclear. Each create pollution. I'll bet you wouldn't want to live next door to any of them.
Doesn't really matter. One day, nature will shake us off. like a dog shaking of pesky fleas, and start over again Would not be the first time, will not be the last.
The sun has around 5 billion years left. Humans are a mere fraction of a fraction of a fraction. Party on.

An EV will pollute less than an ICE car, even when the electricity is produced by a coal fired plant*. That is a fact, not an opinion.

The reason behind this is because an ICE car is using only about 30% of the embodied energy of gasoline to actually propel the vehicle. The rest of the energy is lost as heat. When you use the same amount of energy in a power plant, the efficiency goes up because the heat is used to create steam that powers the turbines.

Additionally, transporting fossil fuels from the well head to your car uses energy every step of the way. Once fossil fuel has arrived at the power plant, very little energy is 'needed' to then transport the electricity to your home or a public charger for your use.

The transfer of energy from the grid to your car's battery, and then the use of that energy, has a much higher efficiency rating than burning gasoline in an engine.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ele...emissions-gas-battery-coal-power-2022-12?op=1

* This depends on the type of coal. The (sub-bituminous) coal used for power production in the US is relatively low polluting compared to (lignite) coal used for power production in Germany, Poland, and other parts of the world. We also have better emission controls on our newer coal power plants than other countries.

 

[tom_tucker]

Just found the thread, after happy hour...lol

How much do you have invested in EV stocks? Sounds like a lot. Word to the wise...diversify. 'Cuz we 'aint drivin' no damn EV!

 

[Snox801]

You're in the United States bubble. I live here too. We sold 17 million cars here last year. China sold 21 million. How many did they sell there 10. 15 years ago? That market is growing. Ours isn't. Buick says China is their biggest market, Europe is going electric. Unless you think the United States manufacturers can just make gas trucks for your and that's fine then they're going to have to go electric or go out of business sooner or later. They're not bad business decisions. They're investments in the future.

Problem is we are never gonna sell them cars. We simply can’t compete with them. Not only do they not have heavy mandates but they also steal all the innovations that come with free markets. Labor is cheap. So yes we should continue to cater to the countries that pay the bills. Yes they sold more cars in china but with less profit or overall value. Easy to sell a lot of cars when you can steal everyone’s tech and use forced labor to drive down prices.

Not to mention look at the reason they have to sell so many. You think we have toss away cars. They even include car sales of those “golf cart” cars they sell. So yes they are a large market but they also still buy more petroleum based cars than electric.
Why is the American taxpayers who subsidize all these electric mandates worried about the Chinese market we have large enough ones with the rest of the world. Oh that’ right that how the people in dc are getting rich.
Fact is electric cars just do not work for most people nearly as well as petroleum ones. Cost more and need massive government subsidies to even try and sell a fraction of Ice engines.

Take a minute to read some history on several of the major accomplishments in travel. Never once has the government been able to do what the market couldn’t.
auto industry, railroads, aviation. All driven by having a better product driven by demand. Never has a “better” version taken so much force to convert. Maybe because ev’s are just not that good.

 

[Snox801]

I'm not necessarily gung- ho just realistic and open minded. I love Porsche but synthetic fuel is not going to be made enough to power every time and it will be expensive as well but they should make it anyway as id always like to see internal combustion sports cars

Oh so this is how it works. Well then I’m open minded and realistic. I love Teslas but they will never have enough battery to drive a full day without fillup. Or haul a trailer, plus electric cost will skyrocket with finding the all of the power source for transportation form electric.
Am I doing it right? So in your world ev tech is the only one that can have time to grow and will be the future? But the easiest route simply could never work?
I’m supposed to believe that ev tech will be able to eventually get cheap and abundant and affordable with time and advancements but no way could they ever get synthetic fuel cheaper. Or get ethanol processed more efficiently. GTFO

 

[Snox801]

I think my answer is obvious

We already own an EV, we replaced my husband's Golf GTI with the Maverick.

While I doubt that the price will be significantly below $30K, it will be worth replacing my hybrid Maverick with an BEV version.

I already know that all the fear mongering about rising electricity costs and power outages because of EVs are just that: fear mongering.

Is it fear mongering or truth? Simply no way around electricity cost going up. Simply supply and demand says it has to.

Everyday a massive amount of energy is used to move cars. That energy will now be driven to the grid. Which now needs massive overhaul. Which in turn needs money. Which comes from charging consumers. So yes they will go up no fear. In fact Michigan is already seeing it. It been reported on. They spend a ton preparing for the ev push from the state mandate. Not only has my cost risen, but we have double the cost during the day. So yes cost has to go up.

 

[Snox801]

An EV will pollute less than an ICE car, even when the electricity is produced by a coal fired plant*. That is a fact, not an opinion.

The reason behind this is because an ICE car is using only about 30% of the embodied energy of gasoline to actually propel the vehicle. The rest of the energy is lost as heat. When you use the same amount of energy in a power plant, the efficiency goes up because the heat is used to create steam that powers the turbines.

Additionally, transporting fossil fuels from the well head to your car uses energy every step of the way. Once fossil fuel has arrived at the power plant, very little energy is 'needed' to then transport the electricity to your home or a public charger for your use.

The transfer of energy from the grid to your car's battery, and then the use of that energy, has a much higher efficiency rating than burning gasoline in an engine.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ele...emissions-gas-battery-coal-power-2022-12?op=1

* This depends on the type of coal. The (sub-bituminous) coal used for power production in the US is relatively low polluting compared to (lignite) coal used for power production in Germany, Poland, and other parts of the world. We also have better emission controls on our newer coal power plants than other countries.

This isn’t necessarily true. They have nothing about lost energy to transfer power either. Plus if it’s only about emission. E85 or ethanol would be easy conversions. Without the need for massively more polluting of mining for batteries, burning ev cars, or any of the massive amounts of pollution created for the new infrastructure.
I’m not against ev’s but the fact is they don’t fit people’s life’s right now and the saving the planet part is crap. It’s a feel good issue. Pollution is just moved to a different area. One I might say can’t be helped by planting more trees.

Sponsored