When do both the Gas and Electric Motors run simultaneously?

[rslilly76]

My interpretation going from image top to bottom:

All electric power to the wheels.
If engine is on by happenstance, it is at idle just to warm up or something.

A little electric help, mostly gas power.

Almost no electric help, almost all gas power.

Regenerating. Coasting or braking.

Light duty about 40% of that light duty is electric power, 60% from gasoline.

When I'm doing 75-80 on hwy (grey/white) and punch the throttle to pass the blue will kick in for the tourqe (blue and grey/white together) this is when it's most noticable too, and you feel it.

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[Drb]

There is also an engine icon that turns from very light gray (engine off) to slightly brighter light gray (engine on) that indicates that the ICE is actively running. No I'm not joking, it is ludicrously subtle.

Yeah too subtle!

 

[Ecorydr]

.....
The "power gauge" in the instrument cluster has a little engine icon. It is, in my opinion, a rather poorly designed indicator. That is not actually my true opinion but I am being as polite as I can be so as to at least try and appear to be a well-mannered person.

If I could, I would rub the collective noses of whatever committee that designed and approved this indicator in it while repeatedly saying "no!, bad design, bad".
....

For sure...... ABSOLUTELY! When I first drove a new Mav Hybrid at the dealership, I thought it had thrown a code! Still today after owning my '26 Mav for the past 4 months, I still do double takes at times. A simple highlighted EV symbol whenever electric is being used would make more sense and less distracting IMO.

And then... the stupid engine symbol wouldnt need to be so ludicrously subtle.

 

[ikcelaks]

Background: there are four main "modes" of operation:

1. gas engine on; electric motors adding power to the wheels (significant acceleration or hill climbing)
2. gas engine on; electric motors regenerating power to the battery
   1. net power to the wheels is positive. (common when driving at a steady state and the battery is below 60%)
   2. net power to the wheels is negative. (common at the start of trips when the gas engine is still cold)
3. gas engine off; electric motors adding power to the wheels (driving on electric only power)
4. gas engine off; electric motors regenerating power to the battery (normal regenerative braking)

Mode 1 will show as "hybrid" in EV coach. The engine icon will be white, and you'll see both a white and blue segment on the power bar.

Mode 2.1 will also show as "hybrid" in EV coach. The engine icon will be white, and you'll only see a white segment on the power bar. This mode is almost indistinguishable from Mode 1, unless you have an ODBII display telling you that the battery is charging. The only time you'll feel a difference is if you get into this mode at slow speed when the engine will sound and feel like it is working "too hard" (which might happen after a long bit of EV only driving that depletes the battery below 40%). This is the engine running extra load to recharge the batteries for the next acceleration.

Mode 2.2 will show "Regenerating" in EV coach. The engine icon will be white, and you'll see a green segment in the power bar. You will feel some mild vibration as the engine is putting all of it's power into turning the electric motors as generators. This will always happens when the engine is still warming up. It also happens when your HVB (high voltage battery) is at a low level and you are only mildly decelerating.

Mode 3 will show "Electric" in EV coach. The engine icon will be light gray (annoyingly, this is very hard to distinguish from the white icon), and you'll see only a blue segment in the power meter.

Mode 4 will show "Regenerating" in EV coach. The engine icon will be light gray, and you'll see a green segment in the power bar.

Practical impact:
The two limitations with the stock gauges are that it's very difficult to tell if the gas engine has shut-off, and it's impossible to know if the HVB has enough charge to initiate a transition to electric only mode.

My recommendation to most drivers is to NOT intentionally put the truck into electric only mode or try to extend time spent in electric only mode, EXCEPT when approaching a stop or a long downhill. If you just drive normally, there is almost always enough charge in the battery that it will promptly put the vehicle in electric mode when you completely let off the accelerator for a couple seconds, which you'll want to do when approaching stops, downhills, or extended periods of slow driving. My second recommendation is to always give a punch to the accelerator at the start of a long acceleration or the bottom of a hill. You WANT the gas engine to run while accelerating one climbing a hill, because these are the most efficient times for the engine to add energy.

If you have a ODBII gauge, you can monitor battery level, which makes it easier to know if you're in a good spot to do a pulse-glide (which is when you accelerate a bit above your desired speed, let off to initiate electric only mode, and run without the gas engine until you're going too slow). Trying to do a pulse-glide when you're below 50% in the HVB is pointless. I also believe that holding maximum electric power while doing a glide at high speed is counter-productive. You are better off essentially coasting (you'll slow down faster, but you won't drain the battery, so you can initiate another pulse-glide immediately). Coasting, also means you're putting a lot less wear-and-tear on the HVB. My very non-scientific tests suggest that thrashing the battery by trying to extend glide phases gains nothing for fuel economy compared shorter glides at a coast. Therefore, I reserve using maximum electric power to situations where I'm going slow and doing so allows me to extend the electric only drive all the way to the next stop or significant downhill.

But ultimately, just driving normally, slowing down early enough to get a high brake coach scores, and not speeding on the highway is enough to get AMAZING mileage. Advanced techniques are really not required.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

Just driving should net EPA window sticker fuel economy in mild weather.

Advanced driving techniques and maximum EV does this 5 days a week once you are in the groove: 55 to 63 MPG in under 65 MPH driving. No net elevation change. Hills in the middle.
Clock tells you nothing about speed. Lots of time at red lights burning zero fuel.

 

[ikcelaks]

Just driving should net EPA window sticker fuel economy in mild weather.

Advanced driving techniques and maximum EV does this 5 days a week once you are in the groove: 55 to 63 MPG in under 65 MPH driving. No net elevation change. Hills in the middle.
Clock tells you nothing about speed. Lots of time at red lights burning zero fuel.

Another often overlooked factor is drive duration. Fuel economy improves dramatically once the system is warm. Since that cost of warm-up is amortized over the whole trip, you see better numbers on long trips than short trips (if they start cold), even if you're just going back and forth on the exact same route.

 

[Ryom]

I would like to know how the whole thing works--even the idea that a gas motor can start and then immediately be at road speed without being noticed is just , well, pretty good!

One of the two electric motors is also used to turn over the engine, so essentially you have a massively overpowered starter motor. The eCVT is also always meshed so there is no "give" in the system that results in shudders or vibration from gears engaging or clutches slamming around. The computer blends the turnover of the engine and the sparks so that everything blends seamlessly and it's usually an extremely smooth transition to hybrid mode.

Our eCVT hybrids are amazing examples of clever engineering without extreme complexity. I would love to see a "prime" version of the Maverick.

 

[HeyBales]

so explain blue and grey at the same time when your foot is in it to pass or get on the on ramp?

I'm not sure if it's the 25/26MY had a change in display info (obviously method), or it matches the pre/25MY's.

On pre-25MY's - you can get the blue rectangle outline so small it doesn't appear to be a rectangle - and all that means is that if you lightened up the power request, it could go into EV mode.

Or - is it really trying to display that some Traction Motor power is part of the total power used gauge?

Here's the 24MY with decent EV rectangle, that some thought was showing TM power contribution to total power - but the scanner shows TM regen was going on with charging Amps. (negative in picture) TM Torque was also neg, but video wasn't that sharp bouncing around.

 

[rslilly76]

I'm not sure if it's the 25/26MY had a change in display info (obviously method), or it matches the pre/25MY's.

On pre-25MY's - you can get the blue rectangle outline so small it doesn't appear to be a rectangle - and all that means is that if you lightened up the power request, it could go into EV mode.

Or - is it really trying to display that some Traction Motor power is part of the total power used gauge?

Here's the 24MY with decent EV rectangle, that some thought was showing TM power contribution to total power - but the scanner shows TM regen was going on with charging Amps. (negative in picture) TM Torque was also neg, but video wasn't that sharp bouncing around.

I posted my graphics

 

[Chops]

Seems like they both must run at the same time--even if just when starting up/slowing down.
Do they normally run at the same time? Wehn the EV meter says 'Hybrid' I am assuming they both are running?
Seems simple to answer but not so, at least for me.
Thanks for any help.

Put an aftermarket muffler or catback on your Hybrid to amplify the ICE. Nothing loud - just a low rumble that tells you the ICE is engaged. A more efficient exhaust can even improve the mpg’s!

 

[rslilly76]

Put an aftermarket muffler or catback on your Hybrid to amplify the ICE. Nothing loud - just a low rumble that tells you the ICE is engaged. A more efficient exhaust can even improve the mpg’s!

pointless to try and get more mpg out of a hybrid ice engine, it's not designed like a typical ice motor.

As far as the sound not needed, there are 2 displays that show what mode it's operating in at all times

 

[Chops]

pointless to try and get more mpg out of a hybrid ice engine, it's not designed like a typical ice motor.

As far as the sound not needed, there are 2 displays that show what mode it's operating in at all times

My ears are better than my eyes.
Although both kind of suck.

But keeping your eyes on the road and your ears upon the revs is safer. Never looked at the tach when driving a manual either

 

[Brick Row]

pointless to try and get more mpg out of a hybrid ice engine, it's not designed like a typical ice motor.

As far as the sound not needed, there are 2 displays that show what mode it's operating in at all times

It never says Gas Only--just Hybrid or Electric...at least I cannot find it.

 

[rslilly76]

It never says Gas Only--just Hybrid or Electric...at least I cannot find it.

go watch the YouTube video I sent in this thread

the transmission has 2 electric motors it's not a typical transmission and the engine puts power into the electric motors aka hybrid system!

 

[El Kabong]

It never says Gas Only--just Hybrid or Electric...at least I cannot find it.

It is never gas only. It is either in battery-electric (battery only) or hybrid-electric mode (which can either be using both the battery and the ICE for propulsion, or using the ICE for battery charging and propulsion).

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